vision2020
city of moscow administrative committee agenda
CITY OF MOSCOW
ADMINISTRATIVE COMMITTEE AGENDA
MONDAY August 3, 1998 8:00 a.m.
Council Chambers - City Hall
206 East 3rd Street
1. Approval of Minutes of July 27, 1998
2. Authorization to Increase Electric, Television Cable and Solid Waste
Franchise
Fees - Gary J. Riedner
Council Agenda Item #5
3. Authorization to Extend Current Electric Franchise Agreement with
Washington Water Power - Gary J. Riedner
Council Agenda Item #3
4. Electric Franchise Agreement with Washington Water Power - Gary J. Riedner
Council Agenda Item #4
REPORTS:
Swimming Pool Bond Sale - Jim Wallace
FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS:
Scheduled:
Unscheduled:
Stormwater Control Ordinance
Adopt a Street Program
Retail Use of Public Right-of-Way in Central Business District
Area of City Impact Rules between City and County
Idaho Fair Housing Commission
1525 100660 50 50 2647 6561227432 10072 0 ustar slist slist From owner-vision2020 Sun Aug 2 20:31:31 1998
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Vision 2020 <vision2020@moscow.com>
From: Gib Myers <gmyers@moscow.com>
Subject: moscow public works/finance committee agenda
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CITY OF MOSCOW
PUBLIC WORKS/FINANCE COMMITTEE AGENDA
Monday, August 3, 1998 4:30 p.m.
City Hall Council Chambers, 206 East Third Street, Second Floor
***********************************************************************
1. Approval of Minutes of July 27, 1998
2. Policy on Repair of Downtown Sidewalks - Roger Blanchard/Gary Presol
3. Request to Overrun Budget for "A" Street Waterline - Gary Presol
Council Agenda Item #6
4. Consultant Agreement - City Shop Complex - Gary Presol
Council Agenda Item #8
5. Lease Agreement with Moscow School District - Gary J. Riedner
Council Agenda Item #7
REPORTS:
Report on Swimming Pool Bond Sale - Jim Wallace
FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS:
Scheduled:
Unscheduled:
Paradise Creek Overall Project - Gary Presol
Stormwater Control Ordinance
1526 100660 50 50 2766 6561626373 10104 0 ustar slist slist From owner-vision2020 Tue Aug 4 08:47:03 1998
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Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 08:40:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: Briana LeClaire <mmsmom1@yahoo.com>
Subject: letter to the editor
To: vision2020@moscow.com, letters@moscow.com
Cc: captbirdie@aol.com, jwenders@uidaho.edu
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Re: your laughably sophomoric editorial of August 3rd titled,
"Lawmakers flaunt ignorance, bigotry."
Senator Sump of Washington would like to defund the taxpayer-sponsored
meeting place for gays and lesbians at WSU. What's to prevent said
group from meeting at the library? Or reserving a meeting room time at
the CUB? Last time I checked, gays and lesbians enjoyed the same
freedom of assembly guaranteed to all Americans under the Constitution.
Or do all constituencies need their own taxpayer-sponsored individual
meeting places? If so, this letter will serve as my request for an
office at the UI SUB specifically for stay-at-home mothers of
preschoolers. I want to be sure to get my fair share.
Sincerely,
Briana LeClaire
Moscow
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
1527 100660 50 50 2504 6561765771 10101 0 ustar slist slist From owner-vision2020 Tue Aug 4 22:21:36 1998
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Message-ID: <001601bdc039$28d812c0$fa1a8dcf@hal2000>
From: "Jerry L. Schutz" <jschutz@moscow.com>
To: "Briana LeClaire" <mmsmom1@yahoo.com>, <vision2020@moscow.com>,
<letters@moscow.com>
Cc: <captbirdie@aol.com>, <jwenders@uidaho.edu>
Subject: Re: letter to the editor
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 23:20:31 -0700
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Dear Bri;
Acctually there is already such a space (for stay at home mothers...) and
it's called the womens' center.
Cheers
Jerry
-----Original Message-----
From: Briana LeClaire <mmsmom1@yahoo.com>
> Last time I checked, gays and lesbians enjoyed the same
>freedom of assembly guaranteed to all Americans under the Constitution.
>Or do all constituencies need their own taxpayer-sponsored individual
meeting places? If so, this letter will serve as my request >for an office
at the UI SUB specifically for stay-at-home mothers of
>preschoolers. I want to be sure to get my fair share.
1528 100660 50 50 2247 6562066303 10070 0 ustar slist slist From owner-vision2020 Wed Aug 5 07:31:28 1998
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Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 07:31:26 -0700 (PDT)
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To: vision2020@moscow.com
From: donell@moscow.com (Don Roskovich)
Subject: LMT article dtd 3 Aug 98
Kudos to Moscow teacher, Carrie Bitterwolf. She apparently takes enough
pride in her chosen profession to go the extra mile and gain national
certification. This is commendable and deserving of recogniztion by her
community. However, when you go on to read that she is the ONLY TEACHER IN
THE STATE OF IDAHO to be certified, it sets off little alarm bells. At
least it did in my head and I have to say that the half dozen or so people I
showed the article to were equally shocked. I think as parents we hope for
the best education for our children.....but as employers (taxpayers), we
should demand quality and accept no less.
1529 100660 50 50 3566 6562076222 10077 0 ustar slist slist From owner-vision2020 Wed Aug 5 08:38:53 1998
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Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 08:38:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dale Goble <gobled@uidaho.edu>
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To: Don Roskovich <donell@moscow.com>
cc: vision2020@moscow.com
Subject: Re: LMT article dtd 3 Aug 98
In-Reply-To: <199808051431.HAA12633@mail-gw.fsr.net>
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On Wed, 5 Aug 1998, Don Roskovich wrote:
<snip>
> community. However, when you go on to read that she is the ONLY TEACHER IN
> THE STATE OF IDAHO to be certified, it sets off little alarm bells. At
> least it did in my head and I have to say that the half dozen or so people I
> showed the article to were equally shocked. I think as parents we hope for
> the best education for our children.....but as employers (taxpayers), we
> should demand quality and accept no less.
I find this rhetoric troubling. We "employers" are not willing to pay
public school teachers a decent wage but nonetheless expect them to
continue to school themselves, be creative, etc. etc. etc. The fact that
some people continue to do so far beyond anything reasonable is amazing.
The fact that only a few day is completely understandable.
Dale Goble
1530 100660 50 50 4035 6562105677 10066 0 ustar slist slist From owner-vision2020 Wed Aug 5 09:43:29 1998
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Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 09:44:55 -0700
To: vision2020@moscow.com
From: Robert Hoffmann <escape@alt-escape.com>
Subject: Re: LMT article dtd 3 Aug 98
In-Reply-To: <Pine.HPP.3.96.980805083428.11821A-100000@raven.csrv.uidaho
.edu>
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At 08:38 AM 8/5/98 -0700, you wrote:
>
>I find this rhetoric troubling. We "employers" are not willing to pay
>public school teachers a decent wage but nonetheless expect them to
>continue to school themselves, be creative, etc. etc. etc. The fact that
>some people continue to do so far beyond anything reasonable is amazing.
>The fact that only a few day is completely understandable.
>
>Dale Goble
>
Let's turn over 90% of the defense budget (or more accurately, the Budget
for Foreign Military Intervention) to domestic purposes, and I bet we could
raise the education level in the U.S. to that of a First World Nation. Of
course, we could simultaneously provide universal health care,
comprehensive unemployment benefits & job retraining, major environmental
initiatives, desperately needed infrastructure investment, youth programs,
care for the elderly & handicapped, and other things that our government
doesn't define as worthy to "defend."
Robert Hoffmann 115 N. Jackson St., Suite D
Alt-Escape Adventures Moscow, ID 83843 USA
http://www.alt-escape.com Phone: (208) 883-0642
Fax: (208) 883-8545
1531 100660 50 50 4324 6562110226 10052 0 ustar slist slist From owner-vision2020 Wed Aug 5 10:04:19 1998
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From: "Cooper, Maj Philip S. CCJ1" <cooperps@centcom.mil>
To: "'Robert Hoffmann'" <escape@alt-escape.com>, vision2020@moscow.com
Subject: RE: LMT article dtd 3 Aug 98
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 13:03:29 -0400
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Right, and without a strong defense for our country you can kiss all you
listed below goodbye! We lead the way and must continue to do so.
Phil Cooper
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Hoffmann [SMTP:escape@alt-escape.com]
Sent: August 05,1998 12:45
To: vision2020@moscow.com
Subject: Re: LMT article dtd 3 Aug 98
At 08:38 AM 8/5/98 -0700, you wrote:
>
>I find this rhetoric troubling. We "employers" are not willing
to pay
>public school teachers a decent wage but nonetheless expect
them to
>continue to school themselves, be creative, etc. etc. etc. The
fact that
>some people continue to do so far beyond anything reasonable is
amazing.
>The fact that only a few day is completely understandable.
>
>Dale Goble
>
Let's turn over 90% of the defense budget (or more accurately,
the Budget
for Foreign Military Intervention) to domestic purposes, and I
bet we could
raise the education level in the U.S. to that of a First World
Nation. Of
course, we could simultaneously provide universal health care,
comprehensive unemployment benefits & job retraining, major
environmental
initiatives, desperately needed infrastructure investment, youth
programs,
care for the elderly & handicapped, and other things that our
government
doesn't define as worthy to "defend."
Robert Hoffmann 115 N. Jackson St., Suite D
Alt-Escape Adventures Moscow, ID 83843 USA
http://www.alt-escape.com Phone: (208) 883-0642
Fax: (208) 883-8545
1532 100660 50 50 3057 6562413513 10062 0 ustar slist slist From owner-vision2020 Thu Aug 6 13:51:11 1998
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Message-ID: <000301bdc17b$991a0780$e61a8dcf@dcas3>
From: "Tim Ewers" <tewers@moscow.com>
To: "MoscowVision2020" <vision2020@moscow.com>
Subject: Moscow Central Park
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 13:47:32 -0700
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I had lunch in Friendship Square today and began wondering how it would look
if the area between Jackson St. and east to the Police Station were to be
converted into a park. Main street would still go through, but the areas on
either side would be trees grass, gardens, and benches. I know this would
have an impact on available parking and I didn't count the number of parking
spaces that would be lost, but I would guess it would be around 20. That
loss could be mitigated by developing parking elsewhere, for instance, on
the corner of 6th and Jackson. And, instead of having an adverse impact on
the surrounding business, I think it would increase exposure to those
businesses by increasing the amount of time people would spend in the area.
Next time you're in the area, I encourage you to picture the area as a park.
I think it would have a tremendous impact and improve the downtown area.
Tim Ewers
1533 100660 50 50 4014 6562454223 10060 0 ustar slist slist From owner-vision2020 Thu Aug 6 18:29:44 1998
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From: John Teeter <johnt@fsr.com>
Reply-To: "johnt@fsr.com" <johnt@fsr.com>
To: "'Tim Ewers'" <tewers@moscow.com>,
MoscowVision2020
<vision2020@moscow.com>
Subject: RE: Moscow Central Park
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 18:52:21 -0700
Organization: First Step Research
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now if you made it COVERED (like the one in Milan?) so that it would year round
and 95 went away from main street it would be very nice indeed!
johnt
On Thursday, August 06, 1998 1:48 PM, Tim Ewers [SMTP:tewers@moscow.com] wrote:
> I had lunch in Friendship Square today and began wondering how it would look
> if the area between Jackson St. and east to the Police Station were to be
> converted into a park. Main street would still go through, but the areas on
> either side would be trees grass, gardens, and benches. I know this would
> have an impact on available parking and I didn't count the number of parking
> spaces that would be lost, but I would guess it would be around 20. That
> loss could be mitigated by developing parking elsewhere, for instance, on
> the corner of 6th and Jackson. And, instead of having an adverse impact on
> the surrounding business, I think it would increase exposure to those
> businesses by increasing the amount of time people would spend in the area.
> Next time you're in the area, I encourage you to picture the area as a park.
> I think it would have a tremendous impact and improve the downtown area.
>
> Tim Ewers
>
1534 100660 50 50 6046 6562462736 10100 0 ustar slist slist From owner-vision2020 Thu Aug 6 19:26:33 1998
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Date: Thu, 06 Aug 1998 19:24:43 -0700
To: Briana LeClaire <mmsmom1@yahoo.com>, vision2020@moscow.com,
letters@moscow.com
From: Scott_Dredge@BayNetworks.COM (Scott Dredge)
Subject: Re: letter to the editor
Cc: captbirdie@aol.com, jwenders@uidaho.edu
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Briana,
Are you reading the same editorial I think you're addressing
(full text at http://www.dnews.com/080398/opinion/3285.htm)?
Nowhere do I read that Sump would like to defund meeting places
for gays and lesbians. It's homophobic Republican Senator Bob
Sump's mission to annihilate the PRIVATELY funded Gay, Lesbian,
and Bisexual Allies programs from the WSU campus.
It might be wise to vote him out of office this November and elect
a representative to tackle bigger problems like reducing hatred,
intolerance, and discrimination in society rather than orchestrating
it.
-SD
At 08:40 AM 8/4/98 -0700, Briana LeClaire wrote:
>Re: your laughably sophomoric editorial of August 3rd titled,
>"Lawmakers flaunt ignorance, bigotry."
>
>Senator Sump of Washington would like to defund the taxpayer-sponsored
>meeting place for gays and lesbians at WSU. What's to prevent said
>group from meeting at the library? Or reserving a meeting room time at
>the CUB? Last time I checked, gays and lesbians enjoyed the same
>freedom of assembly guaranteed to all Americans under the Constitution.
>
>Or do all constituencies need their own taxpayer-sponsored individual
>meeting places? If so, this letter will serve as my request for an
>office at the UI SUB specifically for stay-at-home mothers of
>preschoolers. I want to be sure to get my fair share.
>
>Sincerely,
>
>Briana LeClaire
>Moscow
>
>_________________________________________________________
>DO YOU YAHOO!?
>Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
1535 100660 50 50 3116 6562612045 10062 0 ustar slist slist From owner-vision2020 Fri Aug 7 07:50:10 1998
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Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 07:57:25 -0800
To: Vision2020@harrier.csrv.uidaho.edu
From: fran7371@uidaho.edu (John Francis)
Subject: Nixon Memorial Run
Next Monday, Aug. 10, Team DeMoura, the local UI running herd, will once
again commemorate Nixon's resignation with its 23rd annual Nixon Memorial
Run> It's a public event and anyone is welcome to participate.
As usual, the run starts at Memorial Gym, crosses a culvert or water gate,
passes the University compost heap (Haldeman Hill), and goes through a gap
into Rosemary Woods for 16 minutes. Runners must straddle some fences and
make severaal turns to the right. Bull manure becomes increasingly
bothersome. Swearing is encouraged. The run is crooked and mostly
downhill with some uphill struggles at the end. It's quite unpleasant and
everyone is glad when it's over.
Starting time 11:40 a.m. at the Memorial Gym parking lot. No entry fee;
bribes optional.
John Francis, 311 East 6th St., #2, Moscow, ID 83843
(209) 883-0105
1536 100660 50 50 11764 6562632743 10122 0 ustar slist slist From owner-vision2020 Fri Aug 7 10:12:45 1998
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From: "bill london" <bill_london@hotmail.com>
To: vision2020@moscow.com
Subject: Fwd: BOCC Proceedings for 7/27/98
Content-Type: text/plain
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 1998 10:11:24 PDT
>From latahbc@moscow.com Fri Aug 7 09:26:04 1998
>Received: from brad (pppu049.moscow.com [199.245.242.49]) by
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>Priority: Normal
>To: Bill London <bill_london@hotmail.com>,
> Carol in Planning & Building <latahpb@moscow.com>,
> Louise Barber <louiseb@moscow.com>,
> sally fredericks <dickfred@turbonet.com>,
> Tom Trail <ttrail@moscow.com>, "W." Robb Parish
<wrparish@moscow.com>
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>From: Board of Commissioners <latahbc@moscow.com>
>Subject: BOCC Proceedings for 7/27/98
>Date: Tue, 04 Aug 98 13:25:29 PDT
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>
>COMMISSIONERS' PROCEEDINGS
> Week of July 27, 1998
>
>Commissioners Harry DeWitt, Thomas L. Spangler and Loreca J.
>Stauber met in regular session. The following actions were taken:
>
>Signed and Filed Commissioners' Proceedings for the Week of July 20,
>1998.
>
>Approved, Signed and Filed Vehicle Quote from Neill Motors for
>purchase of a Dodge Dakota CAB SLT, VIN # 1B7GG23Y6SS124336
>for a total price of $13,939.00. To be used by Parks and Recreation
>Manager.
>
>Approved, Signed and Filed request to hire Terry Johnson-Huhta as
>part-time, irregular, Switchboard Operator. Table of Organization
Board
>of Commissioners, Administration Department 05A, Line 06. Effective
>July 30, 1998.
>
>Filed termination of Michael Gates, Special Help. Table of
Organization
>Board of Commissioners, Administration Department 05A, Line 07.
>Effective July 31, 1998.
>
>Approved, Signed and Filed request for tuition aid to North Idaho
>College by Jerrod Ashley Loveland.
>
>Approved, Signed and Filed request for refrigerated vending machine,
>to be maintained by Ernie's Vending Company of Lewiston and to be
>installed on August 4, 1998.
>
>Motion and Order to authorize the Chair's signature on agreement
>between Latah County and Architect Don L. Bott for Interior Remodel
>of Courtrooms.
>
>Approved, Signed and Filed Acknowledgments and Recommendations
>from the Compensation Committee for the following positions in the
>Planning and Building Department: Assistant Inspector, Permit
>Technician, Inspector 1, Inspector 2, Officer and Associate Planner;
>also for Deputy Prosecuting Attorney I and II.
>
>Motion and Order to approve a drop box, complete with envelope box
>for use by District Court, Solid Waste and Treasurer Offices, as
>proposed by the Parking Committee for an approximate cost of
>$1,500.00.
>
>
>Motion and Order to authorize the Chair's signature on Lease
>/Purchase Agreement with First Security Bank for the purchase of five
>vehicles to be used by the Sheriff's Office, including extended
warranty
>coverage in the amount of $128,515.00 principal, to be paid over a
>three year period.
>
>Convened in Executive Session at 9:49 a.m. on July 28, 1998, to
>discuss litigation, pursuant to Idaho Code Sec. 67-2345 (1)(f);
>adjourned at 9:54 a.m.
>
>Convened in Executive Session at 1:32 p.m. on July 28, 1998, to
>discuss personnel matters, pursuant to Idaho Code Sec. 67-2345
>(1)(a)&(b); adjourned at 1:47 p.m.
>
>Convened in Executive Session at 9:00 a.m. on July 29, 1998, to
>discuss records that are exempt from public inspection, indigent cases,
>pursuant to Idaho Code Sec. 67-2345 (1)(d); adjourned at 9:27 a.m.;
>seven (7) cases approved and one (1) case denied.
>
>Motion and Order to authorize Solid Waste Department to certify 1996,
>1997 and 1998 accounts ninety (90) days delinquent or more to the
>1998 property owner's tax bill; per Solid Waste Ordinance #189,
>section 20 (see attached reports).
>
>Motion and Order to accept the bid tendered by Ernest and Beatrice
>Bunch in the amount of $5.00, plus a $12.00 recording fee for
>purchase of a portion of Sunset Memorial Gardens as set forth in the
>Notice of Public Action published on June 30, 1998.
>
>All documents are available for inspection in the office of the
>Clerk/Auditor/Recorder.
>
>Susan Petersen
>Clerk of the Board of Commissioners
>
>by: Sandra Crooks, Deputy
>Clerk of the Board of Commissioners
>
>APPROVED: , Chair
>
>
>
>ATTEST: , Deputy Clerk
>
______________________________________________________
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From: "bill london" <bill_london@hotmail.com>
To: vision2020@moscow.com
Subject: Fwd: BOCC AGENDA FOR 8/10/98
Content-Type: text/plain
Date: Sun, 09 Aug 1998 12:14:44 PDT
>From latahbc@moscow.com Fri Aug 7 15:45:52 1998
>Received: from brad (pppx135.moscow.com [199.245.242.135]) by
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>Message-ID:
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>Priority: Normal
>To: Carol Alexander at Home <carola@idaho.tds.net>,
> Bill London <bill_london@hotmail.com>,
> Louise Barber <louiseb@moscow.com>,
> sally fredericks <dickfred@turbonet.com>,
> Tom Trail <ttrail@moscow.com>, "W." Robb Parish
<wrparish@moscow.com>
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>From: Board of Commissioners <latahbc@moscow.com>
>Subject: BOCC AGENDA FOR 8/10/98
>Date: Fri, 07 Aug 98 14:51:21 PDT
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; X-MAPIextension=".TXT"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>BOARD OF LATAH COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
>FORMAL AGENDA AND SCHEDULE OF MEETINGS
>(Roll call for Executive Session pursuant to Idaho Code Section
>67-2345)
>
>MONDAY, AUGUST 10, 1998
>8:30 a.m. Open as Board of County Commissioners
>
>9:00 a.m. Formal Meeting in Room 2-B
> Approve/Deny for Signature and Filing:
> Request for cancellation of taxes on parcel number RPP
>1520 0200 0060A, due to hardship.
> Request for solid waste fee adjustment on parcel numbers:
>MH 41N 05W 345 413; MH 41N 01E 315 841; MH 24CT C000 06;
>MH 42N 05W 3584 20A; RPO 1620 0000 510 and MH 38N 03W
>2346 01A.
> Fee Report from Clerk/Auditor/Recorder for July 1998.
> Request to transfer funds in the amount of $2,000 from fund
>line 01-14-804-03 to fund line 01-14-407-00.
> Resolution No. 98-10. A resolution establishing procedures
>for the pruchase of goods and services by the Latah County
>government.
> Public Defender hours for the month of July 1998 from
>Steven C. Mahaffy.
> Public Defender hours for the month of July 1998 from
>Gregory C. Dickison.
> Conflict Public Defender hours for the month of July 1998
>from D. Ray Barker.
> Request to hire Social Services Director/Deputy Clerk.
>Table of Organization Social Services department 01D, Line 02.
>Effective August 12, 1998.
> Resignation of Chris Fadness from Latah County Arts and
>Culture Committee. Effective August 3, 1998.
> Request to appoint Chrisstina Hamilton to the Coordinator
>position for the Arts and Culture Committee for the months of August
>and September 1998.
> Request for tuition aid to North Idaho College by Ryan
>Robert Hall.
> Request for tuition aid to North Idaho College by Jason B.
>Keep.
> Request for tuition aid to North Idaho College by Scott
>Wayne Luther.
> Request to surplus property in Sheriff's Office. One
>straight-backed chair, Latah County tag #00495, no value.
> Request to surplus District Court Law Library copy machine,
>ID #1628485, Latah County tage #01317 and transfer to Data
>Processing Department.
> Request to donate copier to Disaster Services. One Canon
>NP-3225/3225F.
> Request to rent/lease Canon NP6551 w/20 bin stapler-sorter
>from IKON Office Solutions for use in copy central.
> MHGP Project 1154-0021, Deep Creek Notice of Award.
> Ordinance #195. Adoption of City of Moscow Ordinance No.
>98-24 "Wallace Rezone".
> Independent Contractor Agreement between Loyal Fleener
>and Latah County for disposal and sale of such diseased and dead
>trees at Robinson Park.
> Compensation Committee acknowledgement and
>recommendations for Switchboard Operator, Maintenance Mechanic I,
>Maintenance Mechanic II, Housekeeper (full time), Housekeeper
>(part-time), Maintenance Director, Parks and Recreation Manager and
>Administrative Assistant and Deputy Clerk of the Board of
>Commissioners.
> Commissioners' Proceedings for week of August 3, 1998.
>
>10:30 a.m. FY'99 Budget Deliberations - Susan Petersen
>
> Executive Session - Indigent Cases
>
>1:30 p.m. Review of Monthly Bills
>
> Other business
>
>
>TUESDAY, AUGUST 11, 1998
>
>9:00 a.m. Civil Counsel Regular Meeting
>
>10:00 a.m. A&K Railway Weed Discussion - Gary O'Keefe
>
> Other Business
>
>7:00 p.m. Fairgrounds Site Committee Meeting - Commissioner Spangler
>
>
>WEDNESDAY, AUGUST 12, 1998
>
>9:00 a.m. Indigent Cases, Executive Session
>
>10:00 a.m. FY'99 Budget Review of Public Documents
>
>11:00 a.m. Executive Session - Indigent Appeal Case
>#002177
>
>Continuation of Agenda Items
>
> Other Business
>
______________________________________________________
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From: "bill london" <bill_london@hotmail.com>
To: vision2020@moscow.com
Subject: Fwd: BOCC Proceedings 8/30/98
Content-Type: text/plain
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 08:55:20 PDT
>From latahbc@moscow.com Mon Aug 10 16:27:55 1998
>Received: from brad (pppl076.moscow.com [199.245.242.76]) by
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>Message-ID:
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>Priority: Normal
>To: Bill London <bill_london@hotmail.com>,
> Carol in Planning & Building <latahpb@moscow.com>,
> Louise Barber <louiseb@moscow.com>,
> sally fredericks <dickfred@turbonet.com>,
> Tom Trail <ttrail@moscow.com>, "W." Robb Parish
<wrparish@moscow.com>
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>From: Board of Commissioners <latahbc@moscow.com>
>Subject: BOCC Proceedings 8/30/98
>Date: Mon, 10 Aug 98 15:34:06 PDT
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; X-MAPIextension=".TXT"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>COMMISSIONERS' PROCEEDINGS
> Week of August 3, 1998
>
>Commissioners Harry DeWitt, Thomas L. Spangler and Loreca J.
>Stauber met in regular session. The following actions were taken:
>
>Signed and Filed Commissioners' Proceedings for the Week of July 27,
>1998.
>
>Approved, Signed and Filed Certification of Fees for Hoodoo Water
>District.
>
>Approved, Signed and Filed Certification of Fees for Yield Timber
>Taxes.
>
>Approved, Signed and Filed request to hire Ronald F. Manell Jr.,
>Detention Deputy. Table of Organization Sheriff's Detention
>Department 04E, Line 03. Effective July 27, 1998.
>
>Approved, Signed and Filed request to hire Dorothy Ann Jennings,
>part-time, irregular Special Hire. Table of Organization Board of
County
>Commissioners Administration Department 05A, Line 07. Effective
>August 3, 1998.
>
>Filed resignation of Mary Pearson, part-time, regular Switchboard
>Operator. Table of Organization Board of County Commissioners
>Administration Department 05A, Line 04. Effective August 17, 1998.
>
>Approved, Signed and Filed request for tuition aid to North Idaho
>College by Daniel Keith Sheckler.
>
>Approved, Signed and Filed request for tuition aid to North Idaho
>College by Nathan Gered Main.
>
>Filed Fee Report - Clerk/Auditor/Recorder from June 1, 1998 through
>June 30, 1998.
>
>Filed Notice of Discharge of Debtor, Case No. 96-21072, Michael Louis
>Henegen and Lynn Marie (Cossette) Henegen.
>
>Approved, Signed and Filed request from Data Processing Department
>to surplus computers and related equipment located at the Fairgrounds.
>
>
>
>COMMISSIONERS' PROCEEDINGS
>Week of August 3, 1998
>Page 2
>
>
>
>Approved, Signed and Filed Resolution No. 98-09. A resolution
>pertaining to an amended Motion to Correct Record and Transcript,
>Case No. CV98-00236, Cameron Farms v. Latah County.
>
>Approved, Signed and Filed request for cancellation of taxes on parcel
>number PPM 035 due to double assessment for 1998.
>
>Approved, Signed and Filed request for cancellation of taxes on parcel
>number PPN 013. This business has been closed since September
>1996.
>
>Motion and Order to authorize that expenditure in the amount of
>$1,705.87 be transferred from fund Line 60-00-439-00 in the amount of
>$1,000.00. Fund Line 60-00-521-00 in the amount of $500. and Fund
>Line 60-00-521-00 in the amount of $153.35 to a Tort Fund Line
>24-00-860-00. The transfer is to correct a mistake of sending
>$1,705.87 to an incorrect vendor. We direct the County Auditor to
>make the necessary transfer.
>
>Approved, Signed and Filed authorization to expend necessary funds
>to attend Educational Training for Data Processing Manager and
>Support person for the months of August 1998 and September 1998.
>
>Convened in Executive Session at 9:02 a.m. on August 5, 1998, to
>discuss records that are exempt from public inspection, indigent cases,
>pursuant to Idaho Code Sec. 67-2345 (1)(d); adjourned at 10:10 a.m.;
>twelve (12) cases approved and four (4) cases denied.
>
>All documents are available for inspection in the office of the
>Clerk/Auditor/Recorder.
>
>Susan Petersen
>Clerk of the Board of Commissioners
>
>by: Sandra Crooks, Deputy
>Clerk of the Board of Commissioners
>
>APPROVED: , Chair
>
>
>ATTEST: , Deputy Clerk
>
______________________________________________________
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From: "bill london" <bill_london@hotmail.com>
To: vision2020@moscow.com
Subject: the shape of Latah County government
Content-Type: text/plain
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 09:07:17 PDT
I read David Johnson's piece on the front page of today's Tribune
(Tuesday, Aug 11) about the county ballot measure about changing the
form of Latah County government--and realized that I don't really
understand whether or not this proposed change is a good one.
Eliminating the election of sheriff and the other elected officials
(except for commissioner and prosecuting attorney) would make things run
more smoothly by eliminating separate bases of power. But is a smoothly
running county government, without the balances that independent
officials provide to each other, really what we want?
The jobs wouldn't be eliminated, they would just be made appointive
instead of elected. That wouldn't save any money. Adding a highly-paid
county manager would add a bundle to the tax bill. But proponents of
the option explain that "efficiencies" under the new system would save
us tax money. Would the commissioners, since they are losing the day to
day responsibilities of county administration, take a cut in pay?
I hope to read a spirited exchange on this topic on this list. It seems
pretty important to me--and a topic that I haven't heard much
information about.
BL
______________________________________________________
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Received: from [199.245.242.94] by send102.yahoomail.com; Thu, 13 Aug 1998 13:00:38 PDT
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 13:00:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: Briana LeClaire <mmsmom1@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: letter to the editor
To: Scott Dredge <Scott_Dredge@BayNetworks.COM>, vision2020@moscow.com,
letters@moscow.com
Cc: captbirdie@aol.com, jwenders@uidaho.edu
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Hi Scott --
Good to hear from you again. My beef is with the fact they have a
taxpayer-funded special meeting place (on campus.) Don't worry -- I'm
equal opportunity in that regard. Women's Centers, etc., should go
too. Let 'em pay rent like the rest of us. Or else reserve meeting
rooms in the CUB, like the Young Republicans. >;-) (that's supposed
to be a devilish wink. Not very good at these emoticons.)
:-) Briana
Scott Dredge <Scott_Dredge@BayNetworks.COM> wrote:
>
> Briana,
>
> Are you reading the same editorial I think you're addressing
> (full text at http://www.dnews.com/080398/opinion/3285.htm)?
>
> Nowhere do I read that Sump would like to defund meeting places
> for gays and lesbians. It's homophobic Republican Senator Bob
> Sump's mission to annihilate the PRIVATELY funded Gay, Lesbian,
> and Bisexual Allies programs from the WSU campus.
>
> It might be wise to vote him out of office this November and elect
> a representative to tackle bigger problems like reducing hatred,
> intolerance, and discrimination in society rather than orchestrating
> it.
>
> -SD
>
> At 08:40 AM 8/4/98 -0700, Briana LeClaire wrote:
> >Re: your laughably sophomoric editorial of August 3rd titled,
> >"Lawmakers flaunt ignorance, bigotry."
> >
> >Senator Sump of Washington would like to defund the
taxpayer-sponsored
> >meeting place for gays and lesbians at WSU. What's to prevent said
> >group from meeting at the library? Or reserving a meeting room time
at
> >the CUB? Last time I checked, gays and lesbians enjoyed the same
> >freedom of assembly guaranteed to all Americans under the
Constitution.
> >
> >Or do all constituencies need their own taxpayer-sponsored individual
> >meeting places? If so, this letter will serve as my request for an
> >office at the UI SUB specifically for stay-at-home mothers of
> >preschoolers. I want to be sure to get my fair share.
> >
> >Sincerely,
> >
> >Briana LeClaire
> >Moscow
> >
> >_________________________________________________________
> >DO YOU YAHOO!?
> >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> >
>
==
:-) Briana
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
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From: "Susan Palmer" <SUSANP@novell.uidaho.edu>
Organization: University of Idaho
To: vision2020@moscow.com
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 15:45:50 PST
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Subject: Rebecca Huntington
Priority: normal
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Message-ID: <1335B685258@birch.csrv.uidaho.edu>
I've been out of town a lot recently, and didn't
realize that Rebecca Huntington had left the
Lewiston Morning Tribune for Eugene, Oregon.
I, for one, will miss her LMT pieces, and her upbeat
spirit!
Susan Palmer
1542 100660 50 50 7166 6564742767 10112 0 ustar slist slist From owner-vision2020 Thu Aug 13 22:06:56 1998
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Reply-To: <susanp@moscow.com>
From: "Susan Palmer" <susanp@moscow.com>
To: <vision2020@moscow.com>
Subject: Re: letter to the editor
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 21:59:38 -0700
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Briana,
Surely you have forgotten to include these subsidized services in your
shutdown list:
Multicultural Affairs
Disabled Student Services
Veterans Affairs
Tutoring
Early Childhood Learning
International Programs
Student Support
Career Services
Student Counseling
Student Health
Financial Aid
People in need of these services congregate in those spaces at *taxpayer
expense*.
Susan Palmer
----------
> From: Briana LeClaire <mmsmom1@yahoo.com>
> To: Scott Dredge <Scott_Dredge@BayNetworks.COM>; vision2020@moscow.com;
letters@moscow.com
> Cc: captbirdie@aol.com; jwenders@uidaho.edu
> Subject: Re: letter to the editor
> Date: Thursday, August 13, 1998 1:00 PM
>
> Hi Scott --
>
> Good to hear from you again. My beef is with the fact they have a
> taxpayer-funded special meeting place (on campus.) Don't worry -- I'm
> equal opportunity in that regard. Women's Centers, etc., should go
> too. Let 'em pay rent like the rest of us. Or else reserve meeting
> rooms in the CUB, like the Young Republicans. >;-) (that's supposed
> to be a devilish wink. Not very good at these emoticons.)
>
> :-) Briana
>
> Scott Dredge <Scott_Dredge@BayNetworks.COM> wrote:
> >
> > Briana,
> >
> > Are you reading the same editorial I think you're addressing
> > (full text at http://www.dnews.com/080398/opinion/3285.htm)?
> >
> > Nowhere do I read that Sump would like to defund meeting places
> > for gays and lesbians. It's homophobic Republican Senator Bob
> > Sump's mission to annihilate the PRIVATELY funded Gay, Lesbian,
> > and Bisexual Allies programs from the WSU campus.
> >
> > It might be wise to vote him out of office this November and elect
> > a representative to tackle bigger problems like reducing hatred,
> > intolerance, and discrimination in society rather than orchestrating
> > it.
> >
> > -SD
> >
> > At 08:40 AM 8/4/98 -0700, Briana LeClaire wrote:
> > >Re: your laughably sophomoric editorial of August 3rd titled,
> > >"Lawmakers flaunt ignorance, bigotry."
> > >
> > >Senator Sump of Washington would like to defund the
> taxpayer-sponsored
> > >meeting place for gays and lesbians at WSU. What's to prevent said
> > >group from meeting at the library? Or reserving a meeting room time
> at
> > >the CUB? Last time I checked, gays and lesbians enjoyed the same
> > >freedom of assembly guaranteed to all Americans under the
> Constitution.
> > >
> > >Or do all constituencies need their own taxpayer-sponsored individual
> > >meeting places? If so, this letter will serve as my request for an
> > >office at the UI SUB specifically for stay-at-home mothers of
> > >preschoolers. I want to be sure to get my fair share.
> > >
> > >Sincerely,
> > >
> > >Briana LeClaire
> > >Moscow
> > >
> > >_________________________________________________________
> > >DO YOU YAHOO!?
> > >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
> > >
> > >
> >
>
> ==
> :-) Briana
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________
> DO YOU YAHOO!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
1543 100660 50 50 5517 6565037302 10070 0 ustar slist slist From owner-vision2020 Fri Aug 14 06:42:20 1998
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Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 06:42:51 -0700
To: "bill london" <bill_london@hotmail.com>
From: Mayme Trumble <maymet@moscow.com>
Subject: Re: the shape of Latah County government
Cc: vision2020@moscow.com
Bill, as usual, makes me think on things I would rather not bother with as
it seems so far from my day to day life. BUT is it?
Guess I maybe old fashion in that I want to VOTE for my officials. I think
voting is still a good idea. It maybe more efficient to appoint these
offices but it also gives away an idividuals control over things that they
may not like. I want a sheriff that answers to me. .
Who is it that is proposing this change? I tend to agree that it may not
save money, although I do see how it could save time in getting things
accomplished. Personally I like things to change slowly. It gives us the
opportunity to check changes out.
If the commisioners are losing the day to day control of the county then
who is being preposed as doing the day to day stuff. How do our commisioner
feel about this preposal? Do they feel it is needed?
Please keep us informed on this.
I wish I had read David Johnsons article. Seems I miss a lot not getting
the Tribune.
Mayme Trumble
>I read David Johnson's piece on the front page of today's Tribune
>(Tuesday, Aug 11) about the county ballot measure about changing the
>form of Latah County government--and realized that I don't really
>understand whether or not this proposed change is a good one.
>
>Eliminating the election of sheriff and the other elected officials
>(except for commissioner and prosecuting attorney) would make things run
>more smoothly by eliminating separate bases of power. But is a smoothly
>running county government, without the balances that independent
>officials provide to each other, really what we want?
>
>The jobs wouldn't be eliminated, they would just be made appointive
>instead of elected. That wouldn't save any money. Adding a highly-paid
>county manager would add a bundle to the tax bill. But proponents of
>the option explain that "efficiencies" under the new system would save
>us tax money. Would the commissioners, since they are losing the day to
>day responsibilities of county administration, take a cut in pay?
>
>I hope to read a spirited exchange on this topic on this list. It seems
>pretty important to me--and a topic that I haven't heard much
>information about.
>
>BL
>
>
>______________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
1544 100660 50 50 10437 6565046771 10120 0 ustar slist slist From owner-vision2020 Fri Aug 14 07:47:15 1998
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Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 07:44:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: Briana LeClaire <mmsmom1@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: letter to the editor
To: susanp@moscow.com, vision2020@moscow.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Hi Susan --
No, I haven't. When considering whether the taxpayers ought to pay
for anything, I like applying the P.J. O'Rourke test -- would you be
willing to beat your sweet, elderly, gray-haired little old mother
over the head to get whatever it is? There ain't much that passes
that test.
:-) Briana
Susan Palmer <susanp@moscow.com> wrote:
>
>
> Briana,
>
> Surely you have forgotten to include these subsidized services in your
> shutdown list:
>
> Multicultural Affairs
> Disabled Student Services
> Veterans Affairs
> Tutoring
> Early Childhood Learning
> International Programs
> Student Support
> Career Services
> Student Counseling
> Student Health
> Financial Aid
>
> People in need of these services congregate in those spaces at
*taxpayer
> expense*.
>
> Susan Palmer
>
> ----------
> > From: Briana LeClaire <mmsmom1@yahoo.com>
> > To: Scott Dredge <Scott_Dredge@BayNetworks.COM>;
vision2020@moscow.com;
> letters@moscow.com
> > Cc: captbirdie@aol.com; jwenders@uidaho.edu
> > Subject: Re: letter to the editor
> > Date: Thursday, August 13, 1998 1:00 PM
> >
> > Hi Scott --
> >
> > Good to hear from you again. My beef is with the fact they have a
> > taxpayer-funded special meeting place (on campus.) Don't worry --
I'm
> > equal opportunity in that regard. Women's Centers, etc., should go
> > too. Let 'em pay rent like the rest of us. Or else reserve meeting
> > rooms in the CUB, like the Young Republicans. >;-) (that's supposed
> > to be a devilish wink. Not very good at these emoticons.)
> >
> > :-) Briana
> >
> > Scott Dredge <Scott_Dredge@BayNetworks.COM> wrote:
> > >
> > > Briana,
> > >
> > > Are you reading the same editorial I think you're addressing
> > > (full text at http://www.dnews.com/080398/opinion/3285.htm)?
> > >
> > > Nowhere do I read that Sump would like to defund meeting places
> > > for gays and lesbians. It's homophobic Republican Senator Bob
> > > Sump's mission to annihilate the PRIVATELY funded Gay, Lesbian,
> > > and Bisexual Allies programs from the WSU campus.
> > >
> > > It might be wise to vote him out of office this November and elect
> > > a representative to tackle bigger problems like reducing hatred,
> > > intolerance, and discrimination in society rather than
orchestrating
> > > it.
> > >
> > > -SD
> > >
> > > At 08:40 AM 8/4/98 -0700, Briana LeClaire wrote:
> > > >Re: your laughably sophomoric editorial of August 3rd titled,
> > > >"Lawmakers flaunt ignorance, bigotry."
> > > >
> > > >Senator Sump of Washington would like to defund the
> > taxpayer-sponsored
> > > >meeting place for gays and lesbians at WSU. What's to prevent
said
> > > >group from meeting at the library? Or reserving a meeting room
time
> > at
> > > >the CUB? Last time I checked, gays and lesbians enjoyed the same
> > > >freedom of assembly guaranteed to all Americans under the
> > Constitution.
> > > >
> > > >Or do all constituencies need their own taxpayer-sponsored
individual
> > > >meeting places? If so, this letter will serve as my request
for an
> > > >office at the UI SUB specifically for stay-at-home mothers of
> > > >preschoolers. I want to be sure to get my fair share.
> > > >
> > > >Sincerely,
> > > >
> > > >Briana LeClaire
> > > >Moscow
> > > >
> > > >_________________________________________________________
> > > >DO YOU YAHOO!?
> > > >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> > ==
> > :-) Briana
> >
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________
> > DO YOU YAHOO!?
> > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
==
:-) Briana
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
1545 100660 50 50 7640 6565077411 10076 0 ustar slist slist From owner-vision2020 Fri Aug 14 11:16:35 1998
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From: "bill london" <bill_london@hotmail.com>
To: vision2020@moscow.com
Subject: Fwd: Re: the shape of Latah County government
Content-Type: text/plain
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 11:14:48 PDT
Carol told me that for reasons as yet undiscovered, this message did not
go to the 2020 list as she intended. So, I am resending it. BL
>From carola@idaho.tds.net Thu Aug 13 18:55:38 1998
>Received: from bob (keid2-a05.idaho.tds.net [207.0.87.6])
> by mail.tds.net (8.8.5/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA25990;
> Thu, 13 Aug 1998 20:55:31 -0500 (CDT)
>Message-ID:
<MAPI.Id.0016.0061726f6c6120203030303630303036@MAPI.to.RFC822>
>In-Reply-To: <19980811160717.17250.qmail@hotmail.com>
>References: Conversation <19980811160717.17250.qmail@hotmail.com> with
last message <19980811160717.17250.qmail@hotmail.com>
>Priority: Normal
>To: bill london <bill_london@hotmail.com>
>Cc: vision2020 <vision2020@moscow.com>
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>From: Carol Alexander <carola@idaho.tds.net>
>Subject: Re: the shape of Latah County government
>Date: Thu, 13 Aug 98 18:50:58 PDT
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; X-MAPIextension=".TXT"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
>Bill: and visionaries:
>
>With certain actions that the two incumbent republican commissioners
have=
> taken, I am quite concerned that voter apathy and ignorance of the
ballo=
>t measure of optional forms of county government will be a voter
roulette=
> slaughter.
>
>For those interested, I've posted the full text of the optional forms
of =
>government report from the study commission, as well as the full text
of =
>the dissenting opinion on the commissioners' home page
(http://users.mosc=
>ow.com/latahbc/) and also on Loreca Stauber's personal home page
(http://=
>users.moscow.com/ljstauber/).
>
>This should be a topic of keen interest to every voter, and it should
be =
>discussed at length. The county manager form of government will not be
=
>cheaper for the taxpayers; it may, in fact, cost more. Checks and
balanc=
>es that exist to a certain extent now, will fall by the wayside. Checks
=
>and balances are currently being eroded by the republican majority on
the=
> Board of Latah County Commissioners. The most recent action is a
motion=
> and order to have the department heads report only to the Chairman of
=
>the Board of Commissioners. This action was taken by DeWitt and
Spangler =
>on a day when they knew Stauber would be absent to attend a funeral
(Wedn=
>esday 8/12//98). The topic was not on the agenda for discussion, and
yet=
> a final decision was made.
>
>Freedoms are suddenly lost in one coup d'etat, they are eroded slowly
and=
> with the consent of the voters who retain unethical elected officials.
=
>
>
>I for one, hope the voters wake up and see that they are getting the
shor=
>t end of the stick by such actions as the one I mentioned above. If we
=
>really don't need three commissioners to make decisions for good of the
=
>county citizens/taxpayers, then why do we elect three? If the decision
=
>of one is sufficient, as that action would make it appear, are not a
few =
>short steps away from no longer needing to vote, or to debate? Isn't
one=
> person making the decisions called a dictator? What happened to
democrac=
>y?
>
>Thank you for letting me air my outrage at the erosion of good
government=
> in Latah County.
>
>Carol
>carola@idaho.tds.net
>
>
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
1546 100660 50 50 12665 6565105136 10116 0 ustar slist slist From owner-vision2020 Fri Aug 14 12:04:56 1998
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From: "Dena Marchant" <wyakin@hotmail.com>
To: vision2020@moscow.com
Subject: MOLLY IVINS ON THE STATE OF IDAHO
Content-Type: text/plain
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 12:03:09 PDT
>> In case you missed this column this week by Texas writer Molly Ivins:
>>
>> AUSTIN -- I have been to Idaho and so am feeling better about
>> Texas.
>>
>> This may sound odd, since the Great State is frying away down
>> here: It's so hot that the railroad tracks are warping, the poor
>> farmers are losing everything, and we're baked brown all across
Texas.
>> Idaho, on the other hand, remains its spectacularly beautiful self,
>> laced with gorgeous rivers and trout streams, snow still on the
>> mountains, the glorious smell of pine forests and wonderful scenic
>> vistas, and it's cool even in August.
>>
>> Although Texas may be represented in Congress by Huey, Dewey
and
>> Louie (Dick Armey, Tom DeLay and Bill Archer), at least we don't have
>> to claim Republican Sens. Larry Craig and Dirk Kempthorne, and Rep.
>> Helen Chenoweth. Sheesh, what a bunch of darbs.
>>
>> Try this for people's representation: Kempthorne slipped a
rider
>> onto the 1999 Defense Authorization Bill that will expand the Air
>> Force
>> bombing range in Idaho's Owyhee Canyonlands by 12,000 acres, which in
>> turn will impact at least another 2 million acres, despite the
>> following facts:
>>
>> The U.S. Air Force has said in court it doesn't need an
expanded
>> bombing range in Idaho and already has existing bombing ranges in
>> Idaho, Utah and Nevada.
>>
>> Public hearings over the past 10 years on this proposal have
>> averaged 6 to 1 against the expansion.
>>
>> The area is not only pricelessly beautiful, a sister of the
>> Grand
>> Canyon with some of the most dramatic white-water rafting in the
>> country, it is also the largest roadless area in the Lower 48,
>> contains
>> the largest stock of bighorn sheep in the country and is full of mule
>> deer and Indian artifacts. It is the ancestral burial grounds of the
>> Paiute-Shoshone tribe, and these Indians are already assaulted daily
>> with sonic booms and low-flying jets.
>>
>> But that's not the best part. It turns out that a rancher named
>> Bert Brackett, who is also a big giver to the Republican Party in
>> Idaho, runs cattle on the land in the expanded bombing range. He
>> doesn't own the land, he's just been leasing it for a long time for
>> $3,000 a year. Now, if this expanded bombing range goes through,
>> Rancher Brackett can still run his cattle on the public land, but his
>> cows could be traumatized, so Sen. Craig wants to compensate him --
>> with up to $1 million. Brackett's daughter happens to work for Craig.
>> Nice, hey?
>>
>> The matter of grazing permits in Idaho is beyond funny. Jon
>> Marvel of the Idaho Watersheds Project, which is hell-bent on getting
>> cattle out of Idaho rivers and streams because they destroy the
>> riverside (their defecation poisons fish, they silt up the rivers,
>> etc.), has been having some wonderful adventures. At one permit
>> auction, Marvel opened the bidding at $30, and the local rancher who
>> had held the permit said, ``That's too damn much. I'm not bidding.''
>> The rancher then appealed to the Land Board, which awarded him the
>> lease. After a two-year legal fight, the Idaho Supreme Court said the
>> board couldn't give a permit to someone who hadn't even bid. A new
>> auction was held, the rancher bid $10, Marvel bid $2,000 -- and the
>> Land Board awarded the rancher the lease.
>>
>> Marvel has exposed the good-ol'-boy system that allows these
>> permits to be sold off for a fraction of their market value, costing
>> the taxpayers an arm and a leg. About 80 percent of the population of
>> Idaho lives in urban areas (if you consider Twin Falls a city), and
as
>> near as I can tell, they all love the wilderness. Yet they continue
to
>> elect people dedicated to destroying it in the name of ``multiple
>> use.'' ``Multiple use'' means you let the welfare ranchers, the
timber
>> companies and the mining corporations destroy whatever they want to
>> and
>> then pretend you are protecting the wilderness.
>>
>> The Idaho Land Board is comprised of the state's top five
>> elected
>> officials, including Ann Fox, the superintendent of public
>> instruction,
>> who theoretically would have a special interest in maximizing grazing
>> fees since the money goes to the schools. However, Fox has said,
>> ``It's
>> important to keep all these leases in the hands of ranchers because
>> Idaho's economy is dependent on them.''
>>
>> Actually, public-lands ranching provides one-seventh of 1
>> percent
>> of the employment in Idaho and one-third of 1 percent of the gross
>> economic product. Fox also has said she doesn't think the children of
>> Idaho need more academic courses, but they do need shooting ranges.
>>
>>
>
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
1547 100660 50 50 7474 6565106324 10101 0 ustar slist slist From owner-vision2020 Fri Aug 14 12:15:24 1998
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Reply-To: <jdcaras@montana.com>
From: "Caras Management Co." <jdcaras@montana.com>
To: "Briana LeClaire" <mmsmom1@yahoo.com>,
"Scott Dredge" <Scott_Dredge@baynetworks.com>, <vision2020@moscow.com>,
<letters@moscow.com>
Cc: <captbirdie@aol.com>, <jwenders@uidaho.edu>
Subject: Re: letter to the editor
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 13:11:25 -0600
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To anyone,
I must have missed the letter that Briana wrote regarding taxpayer-funded
meeting places on campus, could someone please forward that to me so that I
can read for my self the most recent bit of ......opinion....for lack of a
kinder or less striking word.
Kay Henson
----------
> From: Briana LeClaire <mmsmom1@yahoo.com>
> To: Scott Dredge <Scott_Dredge@baynetworks.com>; vision2020@moscow.com;
letters@moscow.com
> Cc: captbirdie@aol.com; jwenders@uidaho.edu
> Subject: Re: letter to the editor
> Date: Thursday, August 13, 1998 2:00 PM
>
> Hi Scott --
>
> Good to hear from you again. My beef is with the fact they have a
> taxpayer-funded special meeting place (on campus.) Don't worry -- I'm
> equal opportunity in that regard. Women's Centers, etc., should go
> too. Let 'em pay rent like the rest of us. Or else reserve meeting
> rooms in the CUB, like the Young Republicans. >;-) (that's supposed
> to be a devilish wink. Not very good at these emoticons.)
>
> :-) Briana
>
> Scott Dredge <Scott_Dredge@BayNetworks.COM> wrote:
> >
> > Briana,
> >
> > Are you reading the same editorial I think you're addressing
> > (full text at http://www.dnews.com/080398/opinion/3285.htm)?
> >
> > Nowhere do I read that Sump would like to defund meeting places
> > for gays and lesbians. It's homophobic Republican Senator Bob
> > Sump's mission to annihilate the PRIVATELY funded Gay, Lesbian,
> > and Bisexual Allies programs from the WSU campus.
> >
> > It might be wise to vote him out of office this November and elect
> > a representative to tackle bigger problems like reducing hatred,
> > intolerance, and discrimination in society rather than orchestrating
> > it.
> >
> > -SD
> >
> > At 08:40 AM 8/4/98 -0700, Briana LeClaire wrote:
> > >Re: your laughably sophomoric editorial of August 3rd titled,
> > >"Lawmakers flaunt ignorance, bigotry."
> > >
> > >Senator Sump of Washington would like to defund the
> taxpayer-sponsored
> > >meeting place for gays and lesbians at WSU. What's to prevent said
> > >group from meeting at the library? Or reserving a meeting room time
> at
> > >the CUB? Last time I checked, gays and lesbians enjoyed the same
> > >freedom of assembly guaranteed to all Americans under the
> Constitution.
> > >
> > >Or do all constituencies need their own taxpayer-sponsored individual
> > >meeting places? If so, this letter will serve as my request for an
> > >office at the UI SUB specifically for stay-at-home mothers of
> > >preschoolers. I want to be sure to get my fair share.
> > >
> > >Sincerely,
> > >
> > >Briana LeClaire
> > >Moscow
> > >
> > >_________________________________________________________
> > >DO YOU YAHOO!?
> > >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
> > >
> > >
> >
>
> ==
> :-) Briana
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________
> DO YOU YAHOO!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
1548 100660 50 50 2354 6565120525 10071 0 ustar slist slist From owner-vision2020 Fri Aug 14 13:42:55 1998
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Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 13:44:16 -0700
To: Larry Hodge <hodge@moscow.com>, Pam Palmer <ppalmer@moscow.com>,
Vision 2020 <vision2020@moscow.com>
From: Gib Myers <gmyers@moscow.com>
Subject: moscow administrative committee agenda
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
CITY OF MOSCOW
ADMINISTRATIVE COMMITTEE AGENDA
MONDAY August 17, 1998 8:00 a.m.
Council Chambers - City Hall
206 East 3rd Street
1. Approval of Minutes of August 3, 1998
2. Amendment to Moscow City Code regarding Wine Catering Permits - Randy Fife
3. Amendment to Moscow City Code Title 8 - Gib Myers
REPORTS:
FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS:
Scheduled:
8/24/98 Stormwater Control Ordinance
9/10/98 Hyett-Palma Workshop Planning
Unscheduled:
Adopt a Street Program
Retail Use of Public Right-of-Way in Central Business District
Area of City Impact Rules between City and County
Idaho Fair Housing Commission
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Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 13:44:21 -0700
To: Larry Hodge <hodge@moscow.com>, Pam Palmer <ppalmer@moscow.com>,
Vision 2020 <vision2020@moscow.com>
From: Gib Myers <gmyers@moscow.com>
Subject: moscow public works committee agenda
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
CITY OF MOSCOW
PUBLIC WORKS/FINANCE COMMITTEE
NOTICE
The 4:30 p.m. Monday, August 17, 1998 meeting has been cancelled.
Next meeting scheduled for August 24, 1998
***********************************************************************
FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS:
Scheduled:
8/24 Stormwater Control Ordinance
Unscheduled:
Paradise Creek Overall Project - Gary Presol
Policy Regarding Sidewalk Repair/Maintenance - Roger Blanchard
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From: "bill london" <bill_london@hotmail.com>
To: mmsmom1@yahoo.com, Scott_Dredge@baynetworks.com, vision2020@moscow.com,
jdcaras@montana.com
Cc: captbirdie@aol.com, jwenders@uidaho.edu
Subject: 2020 archives
Content-Type: text/plain
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 17:36:27 PDT
Kay and all--
Recall that the 2020 archives are available through the 2020 website,
address:
<http://www.moscow.com/archives/vision2020/index.html>
BL
>From vision2020-request@moscow.com Fri Aug 14 12:21:02 1998
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>Reply-To: <jdcaras@montana.com>
>From: "Caras Management Co." <jdcaras@montana.com>
>To: "Briana LeClaire" <mmsmom1@yahoo.com>,
> "Scott Dredge" <Scott_Dredge@baynetworks.com>,
<vision2020@moscow.com>,
> <letters@moscow.com>
>Cc: <captbirdie@aol.com>, <jwenders@uidaho.edu>
>Subject: Re: letter to the editor
>Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 13:11:25 -0600
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>To anyone,
>
>I must have missed the letter that Briana wrote regarding
taxpayer-funded
>meeting places on campus, could someone please forward that to me so
that I
>can read for my self the most recent bit of ......opinion....for lack
of a
>kinder or less striking word.
>
>Kay Henson
>
>----------
>> From: Briana LeClaire <mmsmom1@yahoo.com>
>> To: Scott Dredge <Scott_Dredge@baynetworks.com>;
vision2020@moscow.com;
>letters@moscow.com
>> Cc: captbirdie@aol.com; jwenders@uidaho.edu
>> Subject: Re: letter to the editor
>> Date: Thursday, August 13, 1998 2:00 PM
>>
>> Hi Scott --
>>
>> Good to hear from you again. My beef is with the fact they have a
>> taxpayer-funded special meeting place (on campus.) Don't worry --
I'm
>> equal opportunity in that regard. Women's Centers, etc., should go
>> too. Let 'em pay rent like the rest of us. Or else reserve meeting
>> rooms in the CUB, like the Young Republicans. >;-) (that's supposed
>> to be a devilish wink. Not very good at these emoticons.)
>>
>> :-) Briana
>>
>> Scott Dredge <Scott_Dredge@BayNetworks.COM> wrote:
>> >
>> > Briana,
>> >
>> > Are you reading the same editorial I think you're addressing
>> > (full text at http://www.dnews.com/080398/opinion/3285.htm)?
>> >
>> > Nowhere do I read that Sump would like to defund meeting places
>> > for gays and lesbians. It's homophobic Republican Senator Bob
>> > Sump's mission to annihilate the PRIVATELY funded Gay, Lesbian,
>> > and Bisexual Allies programs from the WSU campus.
>> >
>> > It might be wise to vote him out of office this November and elect
>> > a representative to tackle bigger problems like reducing hatred,
>> > intolerance, and discrimination in society rather than
orchestrating
>> > it.
>> >
>> > -SD
>> >
>> > At 08:40 AM 8/4/98 -0700, Briana LeClaire wrote:
>> > >Re: your laughably sophomoric editorial of August 3rd titled,
>> > >"Lawmakers flaunt ignorance, bigotry."
>> > >
>> > >Senator Sump of Washington would like to defund the
>> taxpayer-sponsored
>> > >meeting place for gays and lesbians at WSU. What's to prevent
said
>> > >group from meeting at the library? Or reserving a meeting room
time
>> at
>> > >the CUB? Last time I checked, gays and lesbians enjoyed the same
>> > >freedom of assembly guaranteed to all Americans under the
>> Constitution.
>> > >
>> > >Or do all constituencies need their own taxpayer-sponsored
individual
>> > >meeting places? If so, this letter will serve as my request for
an
>> > >office at the UI SUB specifically for stay-at-home mothers of
>> > >preschoolers. I want to be sure to get my fair share.
>> > >
>> > >Sincerely,
>> > >
>> > >Briana LeClaire
>> > >Moscow
>> > >
>> > >_________________________________________________________
>> > >DO YOU YAHOO!?
>> > >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>>
>> ==
>> :-) Briana
>>
>>
>>
>> _________________________________________________________
>> DO YOU YAHOO!?
>> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
1551 100660 50 50 11242 6565425155 10106 0 ustar slist slist From owner-vision2020 Sat Aug 15 17:40:10 1998
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From: "bill london" <bill_london@hotmail.com>
To: vision2020@moscow.com
Subject: Fwd: BOCC AGENDA FOR 8/17/98
Content-Type: text/plain
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 17:38:15 PDT
>From latahbc@moscow.com Fri Aug 14 15:21:32 1998
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>Message-ID:
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>Priority: Normal
>To: Bill London <bill_london@hotmail.com>,
> Carol in Planning & Building <latahpb@moscow.com>,
> Louise Barber <louiseb@moscow.com>,
> sally fredericks <dickfred@turbonet.com>,
> Tom Trail <ttrail@moscow.com>, "W." Robb Parish
<wrparish@moscow.com>
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>From: Board of Commissioners <latahbc@moscow.com>
>Subject: BOCC AGENDA FOR 8/17/98
>Date: Fri, 14 Aug 98 14:27:36 PDT
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>
>BOARD OF LATAH COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
>FORMAL AGENDA AND SCHEDULE OF MEETINGS
>(Roll call for Executive Session pursuant to Idaho Code Section
>67-2345)
>
>MONDAY, AUGUST 17, 1998 8:30 a.m. Open as Board of County
>Commissioners
>
> 9:00 a.m. Formal Meeting in Room 2-B
> Approve/Deny for Signature and Filing:
> Request for cancellation of taxes on
>parcel number RPP 1520 020 0060A, due to hardship.
> Request for cancellation of taxes on
>parcel numbers: G 1350 012 010C; RP 42N 05W 06 2406; RPO
>1842 001 003AA and M 1030 007 0130.
> Request for one year only solid waste
>fee adjustment on parcel number RP 40N 03W 26 4806A.
> Request to hire Miscellaneous Elections
>Clerk. Table of Organization Auditor's Department 01C, Line 03.
>Effective August 11, 1998.
> Request to hire Patrol Deputy. Table of
>Organization Sheriff's Operations and Training Department 04B, Line
>12. Effective September 14, 1998.
> Request to hire Deputy Prosecuting
>Attorney I. Table of Organization Prosecuting Attorney Department 07,
=
>
>Line 04. Effective September 8, 1998.
> Request to hire part-time regular
>Switchboard Operator. Table of Organization Board of County
>Commissioners Administration Department 05A, Line 05. Effective
>August 18, 1998.
> Request for tuition aid to North Idaho
>College by Michael Stephene Gates.
> Request for tuition aid to North Idaho
>College by Toby Brown.
> Request for tuition aid to North Idaho
>College by Jonathan Adam Gering.
> Public Defender hours for Brian D. Thie
>for the month of July 1998.
> Request to surplus property from
>Sheriff's Office. One 3M brand 500 Reader Printer model microfilm
>reader, county tag # 00313 of nominal value.
> Request to surplus property from
>Auditor's office. One maroon desk chair - no serial/tag numbers.
> Contract modification for agreement
>entered into on June 25, 1997 by and between Latah County and
>Geographic Mapping Consultants, Inc.
> Request for authorization to rent Canon
>NP6551 w/20 bin stapler-sorter from IKON Office Solutions of
>Lewiston.
> HMGP Project 1154-0021, Deep Creek
>Notice of Award
> Optional Forms of County Government
>ballot proposal by County Clerk.
> Treasurer/Auditor Joint Quarterly Report
>- third quarter - April 1, 1998 through June 30, 1998.
> Statement of Treasurer's Cash as of
>June 30, 1998.
> Remaining Cash Analysis as of June 30,
>1998.
> Idaho Code 31-3201D - County
>misdemeanor probation supervision fee.
> Motion and Order Regarding
>Department Heads.
> Commissioners' Proceedings for week of
>August 10, 1998.
>
> 10:00 a.m. Data Processing Regular Meeting
> 10:30 a.m. Executive Session - Indigent Cases
> 11:00 a.m. A&K Weed Spraying Discussion - Gary
>O'Keefe and Robin Eckmann
> 11:30 a.m. Budget Discussion on Assessor's
>Request for Full Time Personnel - Steve Fiscus=0CBOARD OF LATAH
>COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
>SCHEDULE OF MEETINGS
>(Roll call for Executive Session pursuant to Idaho Code Section
>67-2345)
>
>
>
>TUESDAY, AUGUST 18 AND WEDNESDAY, AUGUST 19, 1998
>
> NO
>QUORUM
>
>
______________________________________________________
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From: "bill london" <bill_london@hotmail.com>
To: vision2020@moscow.com
Subject: Moscow Food Co-op moves
Content-Type: text/plain
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 17:54:30 PDT
Yes, the Moscow Food Co-op has outgrown its home in the resurrected
kentucky fried chicken building on Third Street.
The Co-op will move to the site of the existing Third Street Market.
The planning and permits process will take September, and then
renovations and inventory moving will take the rest of the year. The
new store should be open in early January.
The Co-op has been an important part of the Moscow community for 25
years. If you are wondering how you can help the Co-op make the move,
please go to the Co-op and look for one of the yellow "Let's Move"
flyers that lists the Co-op's need for donations, loans, and membership
equity. Or check out the Co-op's website,
<http://users.moscow.com/foodcoop/>.
The press release below provides more details about the move. BL
>
>Moscow Food Co-op Celebrates Anniversary with Move
>
>The Moscow Food Co-op, Inc., will celebrate its 25th anniversary by
moving
>to a larger location, the site of the present Third Street Market at
221
>East Third Street in Moscow, announced Kenna Eaton, co-op general
manager.
>The lease for the space has been signed with Geoff Beckett, owner of
the
>Post Office Square Shopping Center that contains the storefront, and
the
>move is planned for completion in January of 1999.
>The Third Street Market, owned by Mark DeLeve, will be moving to a new
>location. DeLeve plans to downsize the market and open a convenience
store
>in the adjacent storefront in the shopping center, at 217 East Third
Street.
>Mark DeLeve commented: "After 8 years in our present location, we are
>moving to a space more appropriate for our business right next door.
This
>move was made possible by the cooperation of Third Street Market, the
>Moscow Food Co-op and Geoff Beckett, working together to find solutions
>that will benefit everyone involved. We benefit from a more manageable
>space and increased traffic flow from our new neighbors. The community
>benefits because the Food Co-op will be better able to serve its
customers.
> It is a win-win situation."
>All equipment at the Third Street Market that is not needed in the new
>business is now for sale, DeLeve said. The Third Street Market will
>officially close on Wednesday, August 26. His new store will open on
>October 1. DeLeve has not yet selected a name for the new store.
>Kenna Eaton commented: "All of us at the Co-op are very excited about
this
>opportunity. This is a wonderful way to celebrate our 25th
anniversary.
>This larger store will allow us to expand our deli, and offer better
>parking and a much wider selection of locally-produced, organic and
>healthful products. We look forward to serving more customers who are
>searching for fresh and nutritious foods."
>To thank its customers for 25 years of support, the Moscow Food Co-op
is
>also hosting their fourth annual Taste Fair on Saturday, August 29,
from
>10am to 4pm. Under a tent in the parking lot at the present Co-op
>location, 310 West Third, shoppers will be able to sample a variety of
>foods and beverages for free. In addition, the Co-op will give away
door
>prizes, birthday cake, and balloons, Eaton said.
>The financial plan for the Moscow Food Co-op's move to the new location
>includes the expectation of 25 percent sales growth, Eaton said. The
Co-op
>sales for 1997 were $1 million. The projected sales for 1998 are $1.1
>million, and the projected sales in the new location in 1999 are $1.4
>million. The sales area in the store will increase by approximately
250
>percent with the move.
>The Co-op will rely upon both bank loans and support from its
membership to
>finance the move, Eaton explained. The Co-op financial plan expects
the
>membership to provide about $100,000 worth of loans, gifts and
volunteer
>labor to make the move possible.
>"We are counting on our members to support us, just like they always
have
>in the past," she said. "We presented this plan to our members at a
>meeting on Monday (August 10, 1998) and got unanimous support for the
>decision. Our members are so wonderful that I'm sure we will get all
the
>support we need."
>During August and September, the Co-op staff will finalize plans for
the
>new location and obtain the necessary permits, Eaton said. Renovation
will
>continue from October through December. On December 31, the Co-op will
>close at the present location, 310 West Third. Moving of inventory and
>furnishings will be completed from January 1 through 4 of 1999. The
Moscow
>Food Co-op is scheduled to reopen at the new location on January 5,
1999.
>The Moscow Food Co-op opened in August of 1973, in a tiny storefront on
>Second Street, as the Good Food Store. The first month's sales were
>$126.88. The second month's sales were $1,100.
>In August of 1975, the name Moscow Food Co-op was officially adopted
with
>the move to 610 S. Main Street, across from the fire station. In 1976,
the
>Co-op moved to the southeast corner of A and Washington Streets and
began
>the Moscow Farmer's Market, which is now the town's summertime Saturday
>tradition in Friendship Square.
>In October of 1978, the Co-op moved to 314 South Washington Street. In
>1989, the Co-op outgrew that storefront and moved to its present
location,
>the former Kentucky Fried Chicken restaurant at 310 West Third Street.
>With that move, sales increased by 43 percent in 1990 to more than
$500,000.
>Also in 1990, the Co-op opened the Upper Crust Bakery. The deli,
offering
>sandwiches, soups and salads, was added in 1991. In 1998, the Co-op's
>website debuted at http://users.moscow.com/foodcoop/.
>
>
>
______________________________________________________
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Reply-To: <JDANAHY@turbonet.com>
From: "John and Laurie Danahy" <JDANAHY@turbonet.com>
To: "Vision2020" <vision2020@moscow.com>
Subject: BOCC
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 21:18:13 -0700
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I would like to suggest that Bill reduce the plural "commissioners" to
singular to more represent the current form of "benevolent?" dictatorship
that is place now. Or perhaps we shouldn't speak to this issue because the
list might receive one of those most informative letters from the Chair
that show up in our local paper from time to time.
John
John and Laurie Danahy
jdanahy@turbonet.com
1554 100660 50 50 1763 6565461554 10103 0 ustar slist slist From owner-vision2020 Sat Aug 15 21:43:21 1998
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From: "Amy VanHoover" <hine9441@uidaho.edu>
To: JDANAHY@turbonet.com
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 21:39:08 +0000
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So, tell me why exactly you consider it a "dictatorship?" I seem to
have missed something...
Amy VanHoover
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Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 23:46:26 -0700
To: Briana LeClaire <mmsmom1@yahoo.com>
From: Scott_Dredge@BayNetworks.COM (Scott Dredge)
Subject: Re: letter to the editor
Cc: susanp@moscow.com, vision2020@moscow.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Briana,
This still fails to justify Senator Sump wasting taxpayer dollars on his
own personal mission of attacking a particular minority group that he finds
offensive. The United States Democracy is majority rule coupled with
minority protection. It's not mob rule.
By the way, how much tax revenue generated by you as a stay-at-home mother
do you think is really going to any of the groups on your hit list? ;-)
-SD
At 07:44 AM 8/14/98 -0700, Briana LeClaire wrote:
>Hi Susan --
>
>No, I haven't. When considering whether the taxpayers ought to pay
>for anything, I like applying the P.J. O'Rourke test -- would you be
>willing to beat your sweet, elderly, gray-haired little old mother
>over the head to get whatever it is? There ain't much that passes
>that test.
>
>:-) Briana
>
>Susan Palmer <susanp@moscow.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Briana,
>>
>> Surely you have forgotten to include these subsidized services in your
>> shutdown list:
>>
>> Multicultural Affairs
>> Disabled Student Services
>> Veterans Affairs
>> Tutoring
>> Early Childhood Learning
>> International Programs
>> Student Support
>> Career Services
>> Student Counseling
>> Student Health
>> Financial Aid
>>
>> People in need of these services congregate in those spaces at
>*taxpayer
>> expense*.
>>
>> Susan Palmer
>>
>> ----------
>> > From: Briana LeClaire <mmsmom1@yahoo.com>
>> > To: Scott Dredge <Scott_Dredge@BayNetworks.COM>;
>vision2020@moscow.com;
>> letters@moscow.com
>> > Cc: captbirdie@aol.com; jwenders@uidaho.edu
>> > Subject: Re: letter to the editor
>> > Date: Thursday, August 13, 1998 1:00 PM
>> >
>> > Hi Scott --
>> >
>> > Good to hear from you again. My beef is with the fact they have a
>> > taxpayer-funded special meeting place (on campus.) Don't worry --
>I'm
>> > equal opportunity in that regard. Women's Centers, etc., should go
>> > too. Let 'em pay rent like the rest of us. Or else reserve meeting
>> > rooms in the CUB, like the Young Republicans. >;-) (that's supposed
>> > to be a devilish wink. Not very good at these emoticons.)
>> >
>> > :-) Briana
>> >
>> > Scott Dredge <Scott_Dredge@BayNetworks.COM> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > Briana,
>> > >
>> > > Are you reading the same editorial I think you're addressing
>> > > (full text at http://www.dnews.com/080398/opinion/3285.htm)?
>> > >
>> > > Nowhere do I read that Sump would like to defund meeting places
>> > > for gays and lesbians. It's homophobic Republican Senator Bob
>> > > Sump's mission to annihilate the PRIVATELY funded Gay, Lesbian,
>> > > and Bisexual Allies programs from the WSU campus.
>> > >
>> > > It might be wise to vote him out of office this November and elect
>> > > a representative to tackle bigger problems like reducing hatred,
>> > > intolerance, and discrimination in society rather than
>orchestrating
>> > > it.
>> > >
>> > > -SD
>> > >
>> > > At 08:40 AM 8/4/98 -0700, Briana LeClaire wrote:
>> > > >Re: your laughably sophomoric editorial of August 3rd titled,
>> > > >"Lawmakers flaunt ignorance, bigotry."
>> > > >
>> > > >Senator Sump of Washington would like to defund the
>> > taxpayer-sponsored
>> > > >meeting place for gays and lesbians at WSU. What's to prevent
>said
>> > > >group from meeting at the library? Or reserving a meeting room
>time
>> > at
>> > > >the CUB? Last time I checked, gays and lesbians enjoyed the same
>> > > >freedom of assembly guaranteed to all Americans under the
>> > Constitution.
>> > > >
>> > > >Or do all constituencies need their own taxpayer-sponsored
>individual
>> > > >meeting places? If so, this letter will serve as my request
>for an
>> > > >office at the UI SUB specifically for stay-at-home mothers of
>> > > >preschoolers. I want to be sure to get my fair share.
>> > > >
>> > > >Sincerely,
>> > > >
>> > > >Briana LeClaire
>> > > >Moscow
>> > > >
>> > > >_________________________________________________________
>> > > >DO YOU YAHOO!?
>> > > >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> >
>> > ==
>> > :-) Briana
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _________________________________________________________
>> > DO YOU YAHOO!?
>> > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>>
>>
>
>==
>:-) Briana
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________
>DO YOU YAHOO!?
>Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
1556 100660 50 50 13322 6566040420 10101 0 ustar slist slist From owner-vision2020 Mon Aug 17 07:41:16 1998
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Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 07:37:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: Briana LeClaire <mmsmom1@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: letter to the editor
To: Scott Dredge <Scott_Dredge@BayNetworks.COM>
Cc: susanp@moscow.com, vision2020@moscow.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Scott wrote:
By the way, how much tax revenue generated by you as a stay-at-home
mother
do you think is really going to any of the groups on
your hit list? ;-)
IT'S (bonk (hitting head against wall)) THE PRINCIPLE (bonk) OF THE
THING!!!!!!!! (bonk bonk bonk)
:-) Briana
Scott Dredge <Scott_Dredge@BayNetworks.COM> wrote:
>
> Briana,
>
> This still fails to justify Senator Sump wasting taxpayer dollars on
his
> own personal mission of attacking a particular minority group that
he finds
> offensive. The United States Democracy is majority rule coupled with
> minority protection. It's not mob rule.
>
> By the way, how much tax revenue generated by you as a stay-at-home
mother
> do you think is really going to any of the groups on your hit list?
;-)
>
> -SD
>
> At 07:44 AM 8/14/98 -0700, Briana LeClaire wrote:
> >Hi Susan --
> >
> >No, I haven't. When considering whether the taxpayers ought to pay
> >for anything, I like applying the P.J. O'Rourke test -- would you be
> >willing to beat your sweet, elderly, gray-haired little old mother
> >over the head to get whatever it is? There ain't much that passes
> >that test.
> >
> >:-) Briana
> >
> >Susan Palmer <susanp@moscow.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Briana,
> >>
> >> Surely you have forgotten to include these subsidized services in
your
> >> shutdown list:
> >>
> >> Multicultural Affairs
> >> Disabled Student Services
> >> Veterans Affairs
> >> Tutoring
> >> Early Childhood Learning
> >> International Programs
> >> Student Support
> >> Career Services
> >> Student Counseling
> >> Student Health
> >> Financial Aid
> >>
> >> People in need of these services congregate in those spaces at
> >*taxpayer
> >> expense*.
> >>
> >> Susan Palmer
> >>
> >> ----------
> >> > From: Briana LeClaire <mmsmom1@yahoo.com>
> >> > To: Scott Dredge <Scott_Dredge@BayNetworks.COM>;
> >vision2020@moscow.com;
> >> letters@moscow.com
> >> > Cc: captbirdie@aol.com; jwenders@uidaho.edu
> >> > Subject: Re: letter to the editor
> >> > Date: Thursday, August 13, 1998 1:00 PM
> >> >
> >> > Hi Scott --
> >> >
> >> > Good to hear from you again. My beef is with the fact they
have a
> >> > taxpayer-funded special meeting place (on campus.) Don't worry
--
> >I'm
> >> > equal opportunity in that regard. Women's Centers, etc.,
should go
> >> > too. Let 'em pay rent like the rest of us. Or else reserve
meeting
> >> > rooms in the CUB, like the Young Republicans. >;-) (that's
supposed
> >> > to be a devilish wink. Not very good at these emoticons.)
> >> >
> >> > :-) Briana
> >> >
> >> > Scott Dredge <Scott_Dredge@BayNetworks.COM> wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > Briana,
> >> > >
> >> > > Are you reading the same editorial I think you're addressing
> >> > > (full text at http://www.dnews.com/080398/opinion/3285.htm)?
> >> > >
> >> > > Nowhere do I read that Sump would like to defund meeting places
> >> > > for gays and lesbians. It's homophobic Republican Senator Bob
> >> > > Sump's mission to annihilate the PRIVATELY funded Gay, Lesbian,
> >> > > and Bisexual Allies programs from the WSU campus.
> >> > >
> >> > > It might be wise to vote him out of office this November and
elect
> >> > > a representative to tackle bigger problems like reducing
hatred,
> >> > > intolerance, and discrimination in society rather than
> >orchestrating
> >> > > it.
> >> > >
> >> > > -SD
> >> > >
> >> > > At 08:40 AM 8/4/98 -0700, Briana LeClaire wrote:
> >> > > >Re: your laughably sophomoric editorial of August 3rd titled,
> >> > > >"Lawmakers flaunt ignorance, bigotry."
> >> > > >
> >> > > >Senator Sump of Washington would like to defund the
> >> > taxpayer-sponsored
> >> > > >meeting place for gays and lesbians at WSU. What's to prevent
> >said
> >> > > >group from meeting at the library? Or reserving a meeting room
> >time
> >> > at
> >> > > >the CUB? Last time I checked, gays and lesbians enjoyed the
same
> >> > > >freedom of assembly guaranteed to all Americans under the
> >> > Constitution.
> >> > > >
> >> > > >Or do all constituencies need their own taxpayer-sponsored
> >individual
> >> > > >meeting places? If so, this letter will serve as my request
> >for an
> >> > > >office at the UI SUB specifically for stay-at-home mothers of
> >> > > >preschoolers. I want to be sure to get my fair share.
> >> > > >
> >> > > >Sincerely,
> >> > > >
> >> > > >Briana LeClaire
> >> > > >Moscow
> >> > > >
> >> > > >_________________________________________________________
> >> > > >DO YOU YAHOO!?
> >> > > >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> > ==
> >> > :-) Briana
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _________________________________________________________
> >> > DO YOU YAHOO!?
> >> > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
> >>
> >>
> >
> >==
> >:-) Briana
> >
> >
> >
> >_________________________________________________________
> >DO YOU YAHOO!?
> >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> >
>
==
:-) Briana
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
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From: "Caras Management Co." <jdcaras@montana.com>
To: "Dena Marchant" <wyakin@hotmail.com>, <vision2020@moscow.com>
Subject: Re: MOLLY IVINS ON THE STATE OF IDAHO
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 14:45:25 -0600
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To All,
So here we see it again. More of the same old Good Ol' boy rhetoric. From
local all the way through the state and perhaps more, Idaho is controlled
by the Good Ol' boys, i.e. ranchers, farmers, lawyers, judges and the like,
and to what good purpose have their Laws come? Poor representation for the
underprivileged, Poor representation for nonranchers and farmers, Poor
representation for anyone with ecological concerns and so on. Idaho is a
beautiful State! but unfortunately it will not remain that way if the
"Multi-use" Advocates continue to buy votes.
With regard to Tax payers money being used for gathering places, such as
the Women's center, and other groups of non-traditional types, I would
rather see the money going to these groups than to continue to support the
ranchers and their "Free Range" cattle that are destroying the ecosystem
with their S@*T and Urine, not to mention the depreciation of the river,
lake and stream banks.
Oh Lord, Help those who are unable to see the light, tis time for an
Apocalypse!
Kay Henson
----------
> From: Dena Marchant <wyakin@hotmail.com>
> To: vision2020@moscow.com
> Subject: MOLLY IVINS ON THE STATE OF IDAHO
> Date: Friday, August 14, 1998 1:03 PM
>
> >> In case you missed this column this week by Texas writer Molly Ivins:
> >>
> >> AUSTIN -- I have been to Idaho and so am feeling better about
> >> Texas.
> >>
> >> This may sound odd, since the Great State is frying away down
> >> here: It's so hot that the railroad tracks are warping, the poor
> >> farmers are losing everything, and we're baked brown all across
> Texas.
> >> Idaho, on the other hand, remains its spectacularly beautiful self,
> >> laced with gorgeous rivers and trout streams, snow still on the
> >> mountains, the glorious smell of pine forests and wonderful scenic
> >> vistas, and it's cool even in August.
> >>
> >> Although Texas may be represented in Congress by Huey, Dewey
> and
> >> Louie (Dick Armey, Tom DeLay and Bill Archer), at least we don't have
> >> to claim Republican Sens. Larry Craig and Dirk Kempthorne, and Rep.
> >> Helen Chenoweth. Sheesh, what a bunch of darbs.
> >>
> >> Try this for people's representation: Kempthorne slipped a
> rider
> >> onto the 1999 Defense Authorization Bill that will expand the Air
> >> Force
> >> bombing range in Idaho's Owyhee Canyonlands by 12,000 acres, which in
> >> turn will impact at least another 2 million acres, despite the
> >> following facts:
> >>
> >> The U.S. Air Force has said in court it doesn't need an
> expanded
> >> bombing range in Idaho and already has existing bombing ranges in
> >> Idaho, Utah and Nevada.
> >>
> >> Public hearings over the past 10 years on this proposal have
> >> averaged 6 to 1 against the expansion.
> >>
> >> The area is not only pricelessly beautiful, a sister of the
> >> Grand
> >> Canyon with some of the most dramatic white-water rafting in the
> >> country, it is also the largest roadless area in the Lower 48,
> >> contains
> >> the largest stock of bighorn sheep in the country and is full of mule
> >> deer and Indian artifacts. It is the ancestral burial grounds of the
> >> Paiute-Shoshone tribe, and these Indians are already assaulted daily
> >> with sonic booms and low-flying jets.
> >>
> >> But that's not the best part. It turns out that a rancher named
> >> Bert Brackett, who is also a big giver to the Republican Party in
> >> Idaho, runs cattle on the land in the expanded bombing range. He
> >> doesn't own the land, he's just been leasing it for a long time for
> >> $3,000 a year. Now, if this expanded bombing range goes through,
> >> Rancher Brackett can still run his cattle on the public land, but his
> >> cows could be traumatized, so Sen. Craig wants to compensate him --
> >> with up to $1 million. Brackett's daughter happens to work for Craig.
> >> Nice, hey?
> >>
> >> The matter of grazing permits in Idaho is beyond funny. Jon
> >> Marvel of the Idaho Watersheds Project, which is hell-bent on getting
> >> cattle out of Idaho rivers and streams because they destroy the
> >> riverside (their defecation poisons fish, they silt up the rivers,
> >> etc.), has been having some wonderful adventures. At one permit
> >> auction, Marvel opened the bidding at $30, and the local rancher who
> >> had held the permit said, ``That's too damn much. I'm not bidding.''
> >> The rancher then appealed to the Land Board, which awarded him the
> >> lease. After a two-year legal fight, the Idaho Supreme Court said the
> >> board couldn't give a permit to someone who hadn't even bid. A new
> >> auction was held, the rancher bid $10, Marvel bid $2,000 -- and the
> >> Land Board awarded the rancher the lease.
> >>
> >> Marvel has exposed the good-ol'-boy system that allows these
> >> permits to be sold off for a fraction of their market value, costing
> >> the taxpayers an arm and a leg. About 80 percent of the population of
> >> Idaho lives in urban areas (if you consider Twin Falls a city), and
> as
> >> near as I can tell, they all love the wilderness. Yet they continue
> to
> >> elect people dedicated to destroying it in the name of ``multiple
> >> use.'' ``Multiple use'' means you let the welfare ranchers, the
> timber
> >> companies and the mining corporations destroy whatever they want to
> >> and
> >> then pretend you are protecting the wilderness.
> >>
> >> The Idaho Land Board is comprised of the state's top five
> >> elected
> >> officials, including Ann Fox, the superintendent of public
> >> instruction,
> >> who theoretically would have a special interest in maximizing grazing
> >> fees since the money goes to the schools. However, Fox has said,
> >> ``It's
> >> important to keep all these leases in the hands of ranchers because
> >> Idaho's economy is dependent on them.''
> >>
> >> Actually, public-lands ranching provides one-seventh of 1
> >> percent
> >> of the employment in Idaho and one-third of 1 percent of the gross
> >> economic product. Fox also has said she doesn't think the children of
> >> Idaho need more academic courses, but they do need shooting ranges.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
1558 100660 50 50 2774 6566116265 10107 0 ustar slist slist From owner-vision2020 Mon Aug 17 14:12:15 1998
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Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 14:10:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: Robert Probasco <rcp@uidaho.edu>
X-Sender: rcp@harrier.csrv.uidaho.edu
To: Vision 2020 <vision2020@moscow.com>
Subject: Re: MOLLY IVINS ON THE STATE OF IDAHO
In-Reply-To: <199808172046.OAA26114@pop.montana.com>
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> With regard to Tax payers money being used for gathering places, such as
> the Women's center, and other groups of non-traditional types, I would
> rather see the money going to these groups than to continue to support the
> ranchers and their "Free Range" cattle that are destroying the ecosystem
> with their S@*T and Urine, not to mention the depreciation of the river,
> lake and stream banks.
Yeah, right, let's restore the ecosystem to the bison, who had the
good sense to stay away from the streambeds...didn't they?
> Oh Lord, Help those who are unable to see the light, tis time for an
> Apocalypse!
Thanks for the illumination. :-)
Robert Probasco rcp@uidaho.edu
1559 100660 50 50 5673 6566123467 10113 0 ustar slist slist From owner-vision2020 Mon Aug 17 14:56:56 1998
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Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 14:54:53 -0700
To: vision2020@moscow.com
From: Robert Hoffmann <escape@alt-escape.com>
Subject: Re: MOLLY IVINS ON THE STATE OF IDAHO
In-Reply-To: <Pine.HPP.3.96.980817140616.13204A-100000@harrier.csrv.uida
ho.edu>
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At 02:10 PM 8/17/98 -0700, you wrote:
>> With regard to Tax payers money being used for gathering places, such as
>> the Women's center, and other groups of non-traditional types, I would
>> rather see the money going to these groups than to continue to support the
>> ranchers and their "Free Range" cattle that are destroying the ecosystem
>> with their S@*T and Urine, not to mention the depreciation of the river,
>> lake and stream banks.
>
>Yeah, right, let's restore the ecosystem to the bison, who had the
>good sense to stay away from the streambeds...didn't they?
Hmmmm. Bison vs. cattle. You may have a point there. Of course, there
will still be skeptics who say, "hey, maybe the ecosystem evolved with
bison, and therefore was able to deal with whatever bison did. Sure, maybe
bison stampeeded like hell through streams, but, since they tended to
migrate huge distances, any damage to streams was temporary, and given the
widespread distribution of (what we now consider 'sensitive') fish species,
those species were obviously not threatened by the occasional excesses of
the bison. Maybe bison 'overgrazed,' but since they migrated, and were not
fenced into certain areas and constantly abusing the same land, prairie,
streams, & forests, as cattle do, then perhaps the land, prairie, streams,
& forests could recover once the bison had moved on. What you might have
seen back then as dangers to the ecosystem might have actually played an
integral role in the maintenance of the ecosystem (as we now acknowledge
fire does in prairies and many forests)."
[end speculative quote]
Re your email address, Mr. Probasco, I am only familiar with the initials
"RCP" as standing for "Revolutionary Communist Party." Since the RCP, to
my knowledge, does not take a stand on bison or U.S. range policy, may I
presume that "RCP" is also your initials?
Robert Hoffmann 115 N. Jackson St., Suite D
Alt-Escape Adventures Moscow, ID 83843 USA
http://www.alt-escape.com Phone: (208) 883-0642
Fax: (208) 883-8545
1560 100660 50 50 11331 6566124604 10101 0 ustar slist slist From owner-vision2020 Mon Aug 17 15:06:53 1998
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Reply-To: <jdcaras@montana.com>
From: "Caras Management Co." <jdcaras@montana.com>
To: "Robert Probasco" <rcp@uidaho.edu>, "Vision 2020" <vision2020@moscow.com>
Subject: I Quit!!!!!
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 16:02:20 -0600
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You All win, I give up!!!! nothing I ever say goes without some sort of
smart ass remark which in turn makes me feel as though I am a complete
idiot. It is unfortunate that the v2020 list is comprised mostly of
JERKS!!!!! If you want your town and state to fall to ruin then I could
give a crap anymore. I once loved the Palouse for it's beauty and
gentleness, for it's kindness and happy faces. But now the only ones
smiling are those on the frikin list. I am of course not address all of
you there are a select few who are good apples in this barrel, but the rest
of you can take your worthless linear parks, your "let's make Moscow a nice
place to live" ideas, and another transplant, big city notions you desire
and.......Well I am sure you get my drift. I could not be happier that I
know longer live in Moscow.
I came to visit not long ago and after more than a year its the same old
crap, same old names, same old song and dance. If you really want the
Palouse to be, one again, a nice place to live then I suggest you give it
back to the original caretakers of the Land, The first Americans, The Nez
Perce, The Kootnia, The Shoshone, and all the other native peoples. They
are the ones who new how to be care takers of the great land, for they
appreciated what the great spirits gave to them, where as we
Euro-transplants don't have a clue other than I want, I want, I want or
Mine, Mine, Mine. The Land belongs to no-one. You can remove the dirt but
the land is still there, you can't take it with you.
I truly believe I was a Native in a former life, a Native from the Palouse
region, and I do not like what you are doing to the land, that has been
placed in our hands as it's care takers.
Idaho, was a great place to live, Once upon a time.....in a beautiful
country......beautiful scenery.....yadda, yadda, yadda.
So I am sure that many of you will be very happy to see that I concede!!!!
You know what's best for the Great State of Idaho!!!!!
So hurray for Helen Chenowith,
Hurray for Kempthorn,
Hurray for all those in favor or massive deforestation
Hurray for Potlatch and it's concerns about our National Forests and any
other place there are trees
Hurray of the Right to lifer's and there judgmental, murderous ways(in the
Name of God)
Hurray, Hurray, Hurray!!!!!!
My grandfather and many other ancestors of mine would be soooooooo proud to
see what you have done to the land that they work so hard to cultivate into
something good and decent. I am so glad that my family's blood sweat and
tears helped to pave the way for all of the new and wondrous ways of truly
wasting tax payers time and money that has come about from this, Oh so
gracious, group.
Thanks for the memories Grandpa and Grandma, but I can no longer stay in a
community that abuses it's people, animals, land, and whatever else they
can get there paws into. I will miss you both, but when I am in town I
will come to you grave and place a bit of beauty from Montana along side of
you both.
Best Wishes to All
former lifetime resident
Lori Kay Sodorff-Henson
Msla, MT
----------
> From: Robert Probasco <rcp@uidaho.edu>
> To: Vision 2020 <vision2020@moscow.com>
> Subject: Re: MOLLY IVINS ON THE STATE OF IDAHO
> Date: Monday, August 17, 1998 3:10 PM
>
> > With regard to Tax payers money being used for gathering places, such
as
> > the Women's center, and other groups of non-traditional types, I would
> > rather see the money going to these groups than to continue to support
the
> > ranchers and their "Free Range" cattle that are destroying the
ecosystem
> > with their S@*T and Urine, not to mention the depreciation of the
river,
> > lake and stream banks.
>
> Yeah, right, let's restore the ecosystem to the bison, who had the
> good sense to stay away from the streambeds...didn't they?
>
> > Oh Lord, Help those who are unable to see the light, tis time for an
> > Apocalypse!
>
> Thanks for the illumination. :-)
>
> Robert Probasco rcp@uidaho.edu
1561 100660 50 50 2124 6566314055 10063 0 ustar slist slist From owner-vision2020 Tue Aug 18 08:05:13 1998
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Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 08:05:12 -0700 (PDT)
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To: vision2020@moscow.com
From: donell@moscow.com (Don Roskovich)
Subject: What's up with this?
See we've lost another member who quit in disgust. Reminds me of when Jo
Williams quit in May and Donna Anderson pulled out in June. I couldn't find
anything on 2020 that especialy offensive at that time either. So one can
only conclude that there are some cowardly types that make their little digs
in private, direct to the individual, so the rest of us will never know of
the behind the scenes dirty work that goes on.
Ellen A. Roskovich
(the other half of donell)
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From: curley@CYPHER.TURBONET.COM
To: Vision 2020 <vision2020@moscow.com>, Robert Probasco <rcp@uidaho.edu>
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 11:09:08 +0000
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Subject: Re: MOLLY IVINS ON THE STATE OF IDAHO
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I'm a little slow. I don't quite understand to what end the fact
that bison may have peed in the stream leads us in our discussion of
current ecological goals.
Mike Curley
Mike Curley
reply to: curley@turbonet.com
208-882-3536
1563 100660 50 50 3067 6566345356 10104 0 ustar slist slist From owner-vision2020 Tue Aug 18 11:41:46 1998
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From: Ron Force <rforce@uidaho.edu>
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Subject: Re: MOLLY IVINS ON THE STATE OF IDAHO
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Robert Probasco wrote:
> Yeah, right, let's restore the ecosystem to the bison, who had the
> good sense to stay away from the streambeds...didn't they?
Uhhh...not to be pedantic, but I don't believe there ever were bison in
the Intermountain West. That's why the native vegitation took such a
pounding from cattle grazing--it wasn't adapted to heavy continuous
browsing.
--
***********************************************************************
Ron Force rforce@uidaho.edu
Dean of Library Services (208) 885-6534
University of Idaho Moscow 83844
************************************************************************
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From: "bill london" <bill_london@hotmail.com>
To: rcp@uidaho.edu, vision2020@moscow.com, jdcaras@montana.com
Subject: Re: I Quit!!!!!
Content-Type: text/plain
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 13:26:03 PDT
Kay--
I thought you were made of sterner stuff.
Of course your posts are going to be critiqued. That's the nature of
this kind of discourse. Did you ever go to the famous free speech area
in London, England, called Hyde Park? That's the best analogy I offer
to describe how I see Vision 2020's email system. It's a soap
box--that's all we provide, a chance for people to sound off.
And when people sound off at Hyde Park, members of the audience sound
off back at them. It's part of the package. It's part of free speech.
I hope you change your mind. Montana is no closer to Nirvana than
Moscow.
BL
>From vision2020-request@moscow.com Mon Aug 17 15:21:46 1998
>Received: (from slist@localhost) by mail-gw.fsr.net (8.8.7/8.7.3) id
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>Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 15:07:01 -0700 (PDT)
>Message-Id: <199808172204.QAA09175@pop.montana.com>
>Reply-To: <jdcaras@montana.com>
>From: "Caras Management Co." <jdcaras@montana.com>
>To: "Robert Probasco" <rcp@uidaho.edu>, "Vision 2020"
<vision2020@moscow.com>
>Subject: I Quit!!!!!
>Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 16:02:20 -0600
>X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
>X-Priority: 3
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>
>You All win, I give up!!!! nothing I ever say goes without some sort
of
>smart ass remark which in turn makes me feel as though I am a complete
>idiot. It is unfortunate that the v2020 list is comprised mostly of
>JERKS!!!!! If you want your town and state to fall to ruin then I
could
>give a crap anymore. I once loved the Palouse for it's beauty and
>gentleness, for it's kindness and happy faces. But now the only ones
>smiling are those on the frikin list. I am of course not address all
of
>you there are a select few who are good apples in this barrel, but the
rest
>of you can take your worthless linear parks, your "let's make Moscow a
nice
>place to live" ideas, and another transplant, big city notions you
desire
>and.......Well I am sure you get my drift. I could not be happier that
I
>know longer live in Moscow.
>
>I came to visit not long ago and after more than a year its the same
old
>crap, same old names, same old song and dance. If you really want the
>Palouse to be, one again, a nice place to live then I suggest you give
it
>back to the original caretakers of the Land, The first Americans, The
Nez
>Perce, The Kootnia, The Shoshone, and all the other native peoples.
They
>are the ones who new how to be care takers of the great land, for they
>appreciated what the great spirits gave to them, where as we
>Euro-transplants don't have a clue other than I want, I want, I want or
>Mine, Mine, Mine. The Land belongs to no-one. You can remove the dirt
but
>the land is still there, you can't take it with you.
>
>I truly believe I was a Native in a former life, a Native from the
Palouse
>region, and I do not like what you are doing to the land, that has been
>placed in our hands as it's care takers.
>
>Idaho, was a great place to live, Once upon a time.....in a beautiful
>country......beautiful scenery.....yadda, yadda, yadda.
>
>So I am sure that many of you will be very happy to see that I
concede!!!!
>You know what's best for the Great State of Idaho!!!!!
>So hurray for Helen Chenowith,
>Hurray for Kempthorn,
>Hurray for all those in favor or massive deforestation
>Hurray for Potlatch and it's concerns about our National Forests and
any
>other place there are trees
>Hurray of the Right to lifer's and there judgmental, murderous ways(in
the
>Name of God)
>Hurray, Hurray, Hurray!!!!!!
>
>My grandfather and many other ancestors of mine would be soooooooo
proud to
>see what you have done to the land that they work so hard to cultivate
into
>something good and decent. I am so glad that my family's blood sweat
and
>tears helped to pave the way for all of the new and wondrous ways of
truly
>wasting tax payers time and money that has come about from this, Oh so
>gracious, group.
>
>Thanks for the memories Grandpa and Grandma, but I can no longer stay
in a
>community that abuses it's people, animals, land, and whatever else
they
>can get there paws into. I will miss you both, but when I am in town I
>will come to you grave and place a bit of beauty from Montana along
side of
>you both.
>
>Best Wishes to All
>former lifetime resident
>Lori Kay Sodorff-Henson
>Msla, MT
>
>----------
>> From: Robert Probasco <rcp@uidaho.edu>
>> To: Vision 2020 <vision2020@moscow.com>
>> Subject: Re: MOLLY IVINS ON THE STATE OF IDAHO
>> Date: Monday, August 17, 1998 3:10 PM
>>
>> > With regard to Tax payers money being used for gathering places,
such
>as
>> > the Women's center, and other groups of non-traditional types, I
would
>> > rather see the money going to these groups than to continue to
support
>the
>> > ranchers and their "Free Range" cattle that are destroying the
>ecosystem
>> > with their S@*T and Urine, not to mention the depreciation of the
>river,
>> > lake and stream banks.
>>
>> Yeah, right, let's restore the ecosystem to the bison, who had the
>> good sense to stay away from the streambeds...didn't they?
>>
>> > Oh Lord, Help those who are unable to see the light, tis time for
an
>> > Apocalypse!
>>
>> Thanks for the illumination. :-)
>>
>> Robert Probasco rcp@uidaho.edu
>
>
______________________________________________________
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From: "bill london" <bill_london@hotmail.com>
To: vision2020@moscow.com
Subject: Fwd: BOCC Proceedings for 8/10/98
Content-Type: text/plain
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 13:36:23 PDT
>From latahbc@moscow.com Tue Aug 18 09:08:02 1998
>Received: from brad (pppu031.moscow.com [199.245.242.31]) by
mail-gw.fsr.net (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA13273; Tue, 18 Aug 1998
09:09:30 -0700 (PDT)
>Message-ID:
<MAPI.Id.0016.00617461686263203941313730303030@MAPI.to.RFC822>
>Priority: Normal
>To: Bill London <bill_london@hotmail.com>,
> Carol in Planning & Building <latahpb@moscow.com>,
> Louise Barber <louiseb@moscow.com>,
> sally fredericks <dickfred@turbonet.com>,
> Tom Trail <ttrail@moscow.com>, "W." Robb Parish
<wrparish@moscow.com>
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>From: Board of Commissioners <latahbc@moscow.com>
>Subject: BOCC Proceedings for 8/10/98
>Date: Tue, 18 Aug 98 08:14:01 PDT
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; X-MAPIextension=".TXT"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>COMMISSIONERS' PROCEEDINGS
> Week of August 10, 1998
>
>Commissioners Harry DeWitt, Thomas L. Spangler and Loreca J.
>Stauber met in regular session. The following actions were taken:
>
>Signed and Filed Commissioners' Proceedings for the Week of August
>3, 1998.
>
>Approved, Signed and Filed request for solid waste fee adjustment on
>parcel number MH 41N 05W 34 5413; mobile home is not set-up yet.
>
>Approved, Signed and Filed request for solid waste fee adjustment on
>parcel number MH 41N 01E 31 5841; mobile home is not set-up and is
>for sale.
>
>Denied request for solid waste fee adjustment on parcel number MH
>24CT C000 06; requested 1996 fees to be canceled.
>
>Approved, Signed and Filed request for solid waste fee adjustment on
>parcel number MH 42N 05W 35 8420A; home for sale since 1997.
>
>Approved, Signed and Filed request for solid waste fee adjustment on
>parcel number RPO 1620 0000 510; home is non-liveable, no water or
>electricity.
>
> Approved, Signed and Filed request for solid waste fee adjustment on
>parcel number MH 38N 03W 23 4601A; mobile home is only being
>stored at this time.
>
>Filed Fee Report from Clerk/Auditor/Recorder for July 1998.
>
>Approved, Signed and Filed request to transfer funds in the amount of
>$2,000 from fund line 01-14-804-03 to fund line 01-14-407-00, Data
>Processing department.
>
>Approved, Signed and Filed Resolution No. 98-10. A resolution
>establishing procedures for the purchase of goods and services by the
>Latah County government.
>
>Approved, Signed and Filed Public Defender hours for the month of
>July 1998 from Steven C. Mahaffy.
>
>Approved, Signed and Filed Public Defender hours for the month of
>July 1998 from Gregory C. Dickison.
>COMMISSIONERS' PROCEEDINGS
>Week of August 10, 1998
>Page 2
>
>
>
>Approved, Signed and Filed Conflict Public Defender hours for the
>month of July 1998 from D. Ray Barker.
>
>Approved, Signed and Filed request to hire Vicky MacArthur as Social
>Services Director/Deputy Clerk. Table of Organization Social Services
>department 01D, Line 02. Effective August 12, 1998.
>
>Filed resignation of Chris Fadness from Latah County Arts and Culture
>Committee. Effective August 3, 1998.
>
>Approved, Signed and Filed request to appoint Chrisstina Hamilton to
>the Coordinator position for the Arts and Culture Committee for the
>months of August and September 1998.
>
>Approved, Signed and Filed request for tuition aid to North Idaho
>College by Ryan Robert Hall.
>
>Approved, Signed and Filed request for tuition aid to North Idaho
>College by Jason B. Keep.
>
>Approved, Signed and Filed request for tuition aid to College of
>Southern Idaho by Scott Wayne Luther.
>
>Approved, Signed and Filed request to surplus property in Sheriff's
>Office. One straight-backed chair, Latah County tag #00495, no
>value.
>
>Approved, Signed and Filed request to surplus District Court Law
>Library copy machine, ID #1628485, Latah County tag #01317 and
>transfer to Data Processing Department.
>
>Approved, Signed and Filed request to donate copier to Disaster
>Services. One Canon NP-3225/3225F.
>
>Approved, Signed and Filed Ordinance #195. Adoption of City of
>Moscow Ordinance No. 98-24 "Wallace Rezone". Commissioners
>Spangler and DeWitt vote yes and Commissioner Stauber abstained.
>
>Void Independent Contractor Agreement between Loyal Fleener and
>Latah County for disposal and sale of such diseased and dead trees at
>Robinson Park.
>
>Convened in Executive Session at 10:46 a.m. on August 10, 1998, to
>discuss records that are exempt from public inspection, indigent,
>pursuant to Idaho Code Sec. 67-2345 (1)(d); adjourned at 10:58 a.m.
>
>COMMISSIONERS' PROCEEDINGS
>Week of August 10, 1998
>Page 3
>
>
>
>Convened in Executive Session at 9:00 a.m. on August 12, 1998, to
>discuss records that are exempt from public inspection, indigent cases,
>pursuant to Idaho Code Sec. 67-2345 (1)(d); adjourned at 10:08 a.m.;
>ten (10) cases approved and one (1) case denied.
>
>Motion and Order to accept the acknowledgment and
>recommendations by Compensation Committee dated July 31, 1998 for
>Switchboard Operator, Maintenance Mechanic I, Maintenance
>Mechanic II, Housekeeper (full time), Housekeeper (part-time) and
>Administrative Assistant and Deputy Clerk of the Board of
>Commissioners. With the exception of Building and Grounds Director
>status to be DH4 and Parks and Recreation Manager job description
>amended to included requirement to live at trailer located at Robinson
>Park.
>
>Motion and Order to amend all job descriptions for department heads
>under the Board of Commissioners to read "Reports to Chairman, Board
>of Commissioners".
>
>All documents are available for inspection in the office of the
>Clerk/Auditor/Recorder.
>
>Susan Petersen
>Clerk of the Board of Commissioners
>
>by: Sandra Crooks, Deputy
>Clerk of the Board of Commissioners
>
>APPROVED: , Chair
>
>
>ATTEST: , Deputy Clerk
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
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Message-ID: <01BDCAB2.658A6500.johnt@fsr.com>
From: John Teeter <johnt@fsr.com>
Reply-To: "johnt@fsr.com" <johnt@fsr.com>
To: "vision2020@moscow.com" <vision2020@moscow.com>
Subject: RE: BOCC Proceedings for 8/10/98
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 14:13:37 -0700
Organization: First Step Research
X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211
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I too think that a more detailed review of changes in the structure of
county gov. is warrented. As noted in the following:
>Motion and Order to amend all job descriptions for department heads
> >under the Board of Commissioners to read "Reports to Chairman, Board
> >of Commissioners".
just seems like there's a re-organization of responcibility afoot which has
blown by the voting public? how broad are the effects of this change?
what are the implications etc....does it indeed make what was a single
legal entitiy (the BOCC) and break it into parts (the chair of the BOCC +
the rest of the BOCC)? are those responsibilties/capabilities which are
given to the sole perview of the Chair of BOCC explicitly spelled out, or
are they going to be piecemealed out in motions such as the above???
johnt
On Tuesday, August 18, 1998 1:36 PM, bill london
[SMTP:bill_london@hotmail.com] wrote:
>
>
> >From latahbc@moscow.com Tue Aug 18 09:08:02 1998
> >Received: from brad (pppu031.moscow.com [199.245.242.31]) by
> mail-gw.fsr.net (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA13273; Tue, 18 Aug 1998
> 09:09:30 -0700 (PDT)
> >Message-ID:
> <MAPI.Id.0016.00617461686263203941313730303030@MAPI.to.RFC822>
> >Priority: Normal
> >To: Bill London <bill_london@hotmail.com>,
> > Carol in Planning & Building <latahpb@moscow.com>,
> > Louise Barber <louiseb@moscow.com>,
> > sally fredericks <dickfred@turbonet.com>,
> > Tom Trail <ttrail@moscow.com>, "W." Robb Parish
> <wrparish@moscow.com>
> >MIME-Version: 1.0
> >From: Board of Commissioners <latahbc@moscow.com>
> >Subject: BOCC Proceedings for 8/10/98
> >Date: Tue, 18 Aug 98 08:14:01 PDT
> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; X-MAPIextension=".TXT"
> >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> >
> >COMMISSIONERS' PROCEEDINGS
> > Week of August 10, 1998
> >
> >Commissioners Harry DeWitt, Thomas L. Spangler and Loreca J.
> >Stauber met in regular session. The following actions were taken:
> >
> >Signed and Filed Commissioners' Proceedings for the Week of August
> >3, 1998.
> >
> >Approved, Signed and Filed request for solid waste fee adjustment on
> >parcel number MH 41N 05W 34 5413; mobile home is not set-up yet.
> >
> >Approved, Signed and Filed request for solid waste fee adjustment on
> >parcel number MH 41N 01E 31 5841; mobile home is not set-up and is
> >for sale.
> >
> >Denied request for solid waste fee adjustment on parcel number MH
> >24CT C000 06; requested 1996 fees to be canceled.
> >
> >Approved, Signed and Filed request for solid waste fee adjustment on
> >parcel number MH 42N 05W 35 8420A; home for sale since 1997.
> >
> >Approved, Signed and Filed request for solid waste fee adjustment on
> >parcel number RPO 1620 0000 510; home is non-liveable, no water or
> >electricity.
> >
> > Approved, Signed and Filed request for solid waste fee adjustment on
> >parcel number MH 38N 03W 23 4601A; mobile home is only being
> >stored at this time.
> >
> >Filed Fee Report from Clerk/Auditor/Recorder for July 1998.
> >
> >Approved, Signed and Filed request to transfer funds in the amount of
> >$2,000 from fund line 01-14-804-03 to fund line 01-14-407-00, Data
> >Processing department.
> >
> >Approved, Signed and Filed Resolution No. 98-10. A resolution
> >establishing procedures for the purchase of goods and services by the
> >Latah County government.
> >
> >Approved, Signed and Filed Public Defender hours for the month of
> >July 1998 from Steven C. Mahaffy.
> >
> >Approved, Signed and Filed Public Defender hours for the month of
> >July 1998 from Gregory C. Dickison.
> >COMMISSIONERS' PROCEEDINGS
> >Week of August 10, 1998
> >Page 2
> >
> >
> >
> >Approved, Signed and Filed Conflict Public Defender hours for the
> >month of July 1998 from D. Ray Barker.
> >
> >Approved, Signed and Filed request to hire Vicky MacArthur as Social
> >Services Director/Deputy Clerk. Table of Organization Social Services
> >department 01D, Line 02. Effective August 12, 1998.
> >
> >Filed resignation of Chris Fadness from Latah County Arts and Culture
> >Committee. Effective August 3, 1998.
> >
> >Approved, Signed and Filed request to appoint Chrisstina Hamilton to
> >the Coordinator position for the Arts and Culture Committee for the
> >months of August and September 1998.
> >
> >Approved, Signed and Filed request for tuition aid to North Idaho
> >College by Ryan Robert Hall.
> >
> >Approved, Signed and Filed request for tuition aid to North Idaho
> >College by Jason B. Keep.
> >
> >Approved, Signed and Filed request for tuition aid to College of
> >Southern Idaho by Scott Wayne Luther.
> >
> >Approved, Signed and Filed request to surplus property in Sheriff's
> >Office. One straight-backed chair, Latah County tag #00495, no
> >value.
> >
> >Approved, Signed and Filed request to surplus District Court Law
> >Library copy machine, ID #1628485, Latah County tag #01317 and
> >transfer to Data Processing Department.
> >
> >Approved, Signed and Filed request to donate copier to Disaster
> >Services. One Canon NP-3225/3225F.
> >
> >Approved, Signed and Filed Ordinance #195. Adoption of City of
> >Moscow Ordinance No. 98-24 "Wallace Rezone". Commissioners
> >Spangler and DeWitt vote yes and Commissioner Stauber abstained.
> >
> >Void Independent Contractor Agreement between Loyal Fleener and
> >Latah County for disposal and sale of such diseased and dead trees at
> >Robinson Park.
> >
> >Convened in Executive Session at 10:46 a.m. on August 10, 1998, to
> >discuss records that are exempt from public inspection, indigent,
> >pursuant to Idaho Code Sec. 67-2345 (1)(d); adjourned at 10:58 a.m.
> >
> >COMMISSIONERS' PROCEEDINGS
> >Week of August 10, 1998
> >Page 3
> >
> >
> >
> >Convened in Executive Session at 9:00 a.m. on August 12, 1998, to
> >discuss records that are exempt from public inspection, indigent cases,
> >pursuant to Idaho Code Sec. 67-2345 (1)(d); adjourned at 10:08 a.m.;
> >ten (10) cases approved and one (1) case denied.
> >
> >Motion and Order to accept the acknowledgment and
> >recommendations by Compensation Committee dated July 31, 1998 for
> >Switchboard Operator, Maintenance Mechanic I, Maintenance
> >Mechanic II, Housekeeper (full time), Housekeeper (part-time) and
> >Administrative Assistant and Deputy Clerk of the Board of
> >Commissioners. With the exception of Building and Grounds Director
> >status to be DH4 and Parks and Recreation Manager job description
> >amended to included requirement to live at trailer located at Robinson
> >Park.
> >
> >Motion and Order to amend all job descriptions for department heads
> >under the Board of Commissioners to read "Reports to Chairman, Board
> >of Commissioners".
> >
> >All documents are available for inspection in the office of the
> >Clerk/Auditor/Recorder.
> >
> >Susan Petersen
> >Clerk of the Board of Commissioners
> >
> >by: Sandra Crooks, Deputy
> >Clerk of the Board of Commissioners
> >
> >APPROVED: , Chair
> >
> >
> >ATTEST: , Deputy Clerk
> >
>
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
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From: John Guyer <johnguy@microsoft.com>
To: "'vision2020@moscow.com'" <vision2020@moscow.com>
Subject: Infrastructure improvements.
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 14:16:50 -0700
X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9)
Greetings,
As far as I understand the mission of this email list, it is discuss the
betterment of the community. If I am mistaken in this, then you may
completely disregard this email. If I am correct in my understanding, then
I have a question for your consideration.
Infrastructure has long been known to be the chicken and the egg problem.
You need infrastructure to attract businesses, you need businesses to fund
infrastructure. How do you get one without the other? The type of
infrastructure that I would like you to consider is high speed data
connections.
I spent the better part of a day researching what is available in the Moscow
area. Either the infrastructure is very poor, or the local providers are
sadly lacking in information. Either way, I was not given very helpful
information. Pullman has Moscow beat hands down in this area (at least they
have ISDN). What are the plans for DSL in the area? GTE doesn't even
consider Moscow an area of service!? Century told me they were YEARS away
from cable modems. I am curious what the local elected officials are doing
to change this?
Moscow is an ideal location for software companies. The area is ripe with
young, newly trained talent (high tech companies love this), the population
is far more intellectual (as a general rule) than other places, there is a
decent airport in the community (some would argue that point), and there are
certain tax and land cost advantages. However, software companies live and
die by the internet today. They cannot survive without it.
These are the types of companies you want in your area. They generate huge
revenues, and they are virtually pollution free (as free as any business can
be). IMHO. If you build it, they will come. If you already have it, then
please make it easier to locate these services.
Respectfully,
John B. Guyer
Enterprise Data Management
johnguy@microsoft.com
(425) 703-3971
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Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 14:50:07 -0700
To: John Guyer <johnguy@microsoft.com>
From: Jeff Griffin <jeffg@turbonet.com>
Subject: Re: Infrastructure improvements.
Cc: "'vision2020@moscow.com'" <vision2020@moscow.com>
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At 02:16 PM 8/18/98 -0700, John Guyer wrote:
>Infrastructure has long been known to be the chicken and the egg problem.
>You need infrastructure to attract businesses, you need businesses to fund
>infrastructure. How do you get one without the other? The type of
>infrastructure that I would like you to consider is high speed data
>connections.
>
>I spent the better part of a day researching what is available in the Moscow
>area. Either the infrastructure is very poor, or the local providers are
>sadly lacking in information. Either way, I was not given very helpful
>information. Pullman has Moscow beat hands down in this area (at least they
>have ISDN). What are the plans for DSL in the area? GTE doesn't even
>consider Moscow an area of service!? Century told me they were YEARS away
>from cable modems. I am curious what the local elected officials are doing
>to change this?
John, the major hold up seems to be GTE and their antagonistic attitude
toward both local ISP's and individual customers. Tony Ray at TurboNet
tried to implement IDSL, but has been thwarted by technical and policy
problems with GTE.
Does anyone know if the new UI business incubator will have it's own T1, or
will it try to utilize the UI connections?
Jeff Griffin jeffg@turbonet.com
Affirmative Technologies http://www.affirmnet.com/
Affirmative Technologies provides appropriate solutions
to the web publishing needs of small businesses.
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Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 15:02:01 -0700
To: vision2020@moscow.com
From: Robert Hoffmann <escape@alt-escape.com>
Subject: Re: Infrastructure improvements.
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At 02:16 PM 8/18/98 -0700, you wrote:
>I spent the better part of a day researching what is available in the Moscow
>area. Either the infrastructure is very poor, or the local providers are
>sadly lacking in information.
John (& company),
Point well taken. I myself have the bandwith blues, and did some research,
also. This is what I found out (which may or may not be in agreement with
what you found out):
First, Moscow does have ISDN service. I recall it is over $100/month
(depending on contract), plus around $39 for actual Internet access. If
you spoke to someone at GTE and they don't know about it, I'm not
surprized. Try again, or ask local computer experts at First Step Internet
or Cactus Computer whom to contact.
GTE is rolling out DSL (or ASDL, or whatever other alphabet soup variation)
in Pullman. They won't do so in Moscow without an "anchor client," a major
client willing to install umpteen lines. Incidentally, a little bird told
me that preliminary tests in Pullman show that this technology will only
give high speed on one sixth of the lines there.
I contacted the cable franchise, and told things would happen in the first
six months of next year. But your estimate of YEARS may be more recent
than my findings, or may be given by someone who knew more (or less) than
the person I spoke to.
You can also have GTE install dedicated digital lines which would guarantee
you around 53k modem speed. I think that cost is pretty darn close to ISDN
cost.
Another option is to use Multilink PPP technology. I actually examined and
tried this, and will detail my experience (and why I quit, for now).
Multilink PPP uses two modems (or a dual modem) in tandem (with two
separate phone lines) to achieve quasi-fast access. I had a 28k modem and
thought that I could effectively quadruple my access speed by switching to
a dual 56k modem. This, incidentally, would be close to ISDN speed. The
technology allowed you to use call waiting to interrupt one line. So I
could connect with the fax/modem line at 56k, add the second line when I
was not on the phone, and should a voice call come in, call waiting would
bump me off the voice line, while maintaining the other line (only works on
one line, not both).
Well, there were problems. Such as the fact that the call waiting feature
did not work on either line. So I would either have to add a third phone
line (extra expense) or lose use of my voice line when I chose to use both
lines. Of course, I wouldn't have to use both lines (I could just use the
one), but doesn't that defeat the purpose?
Equally disappointing was the fact that my phone lines could only achieve a
speed of about 26,400, even with a 56k modem. So when using only one line,
I was at the same speed as when I had my 28k modem. Instead of quadrupling
my connect speed, I only doubled it (when disabling my phone line). Try to
call GTE to ask them to improve modem speed. They only guarantee 21,000 baud.
The cost?
Modem: $200
Call waiting: $ 4/month, plus $10 set-up fee
Extra ISP account: $ 15/month
For quadruple modem speed, acceptable. For same modem speed, and double
when knocking out my voice line, unacceptable. Return modem, cancel extra
ISP account, cancel call waiting, lose $10 set-up fee and over a day's
labor trying to get the thing to work, and then uninstalling and returning
the modem.
Should Turbonet inform me that the modem manufacturer has fixed the
problems with call waiting, I might give it another try. Check back around
October.
Here's another possibility: If you are a new business, you might try
moving into the business incubator (affiliated with the University). Last
I heard, they had access that was close to ISDN speed. They might have
even increased speed.
But I agree, in a town with a major university, you'd think that there
would be more options. However, a trade article I read a while ago stated
that high-speed access would not be a reality for the majority of Americans
until somewhere around 2003-2005. Pay through the nose, or put up with
slow access. I've decided to do the latter for a while longer.
Robert Hoffmann 115 N. Jackson St., Suite D
Alt-Escape Adventures Moscow, ID 83843 USA
http://www.alt-escape.com Phone: (208) 883-0642
Fax: (208) 883-8545
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From: "Dena Marchant" <wyakin@hotmail.com>
To: vision2020@moscow.com
Subject: Re: Infrastructure improvements.
Content-Type: text/plain
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 15:12:40 PDT
John,
I'd certainly rather live next door to a software company than
many other kinds of companies. But your mail assumes that more business
is a given, and that the only questions are what kind, and can we get
them. It's also important to ask how much business we want. Being
virtually pollution free is very, very good. But pollution isn't the
only potential affect a business can have on an area. For example,
Redmond and Silicon Valley are very expensive places to live.
Dena
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
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From: John Guyer <johnguy@microsoft.com>
To: "'Dena Marchant'" <wyakin@hotmail.com>, vision2020@moscow.com
Subject: RE: Infrastructure improvements.
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 15:58:33 -0700
X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9)
Point well taken. My email does make assumptions. It assumes that a
community like Moscow would like to have more businesses. Businesses that
minimize their negative impacts and maximize their possitive impacts.
You are also absolutely correct about the high cost of living in the Silicon
Valley and the Redmond area. That is a major factor in the minds of many
businesses. If it costs a great deal to live there, then their compensation
is less attractive. That is precisely why Moscow IS attractive. I do not
think that Moscow needs fear the problem that many in Redmond and Silicon
Valley face. Evenso, you will not find many of the original residents
complaining about the huge increases they have seen in their property values
(although they may complain about many other issues).
You can approach your community in one of three ways. 1) No growth - do
whatever you can to make the community unattractive. 2) Managed growth - do
whatever you can to make it attractive to businesses that are beneficial to
the community, and plan accordingly. 3) Sprawl - make no plan at all and
take your lumps as they come.
IMHO, it is niavee to think that you can have a well balanced, wholesome
community based on the first choice (people that wish to be productive will
leave). It is the height of folly to go with the latter.
Your choice.
John B. Guyer
Enterprise Data Management
johnguy@microsoft.com
(425) 703-3971
-----Original Message-----
From: Dena Marchant [mailto:wyakin@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 1998 3:13 PM
To: vision2020@moscow.com
Subject: Re: Infrastructure improvements.
John,
I'd certainly rather live next door to a software company than
many other kinds of companies. But your mail assumes that more business
is a given, and that the only questions are what kind, and can we get
them. It's also important to ask how much business we want. Being
virtually pollution free is very, very good. But pollution isn't the
only potential affect a business can have on an area. For example,
Redmond and Silicon Valley are very expensive places to live.
Dena
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
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Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 22:51:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mike Harshbarger <mharsh@fsr.net>
To: Robert Hoffmann <escape@alt-escape.com>
cc: vision2020@moscow.com
Subject: Re: Infrastructure improvements.
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980818150201.00754128@alt-escape.com>
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On Tue, 18 Aug 1998, Robert Hoffmann wrote:
> At 02:16 PM 8/18/98 -0700, you wrote:
>
> >I spent the better part of a day researching what is available in the Moscow
> >area. Either the infrastructure is very poor, or the local providers are
> >sadly lacking in information.
>
> John (& company),
>
> Point well taken. I myself have the bandwith blues, and did some research,
> also. This is what I found out (which may or may not be in agreement with
> what you found out):
>
> First, Moscow does have ISDN service. I recall it is over $100/month
> (depending on contract), plus around $39 for actual Internet access. If
> you spoke to someone at GTE and they don't know about it, I'm not
> surprized. Try again, or ask local computer experts at First Step Internet
> or Cactus Computer whom to contact.
The GTE Phone Mart will gladly give you a 1-800 number to call for ISDN
information and ordering. I'm currently paying $116 a month for my ISDN
connection which essentially gets me two phone lines, a rock-solid 128
Kbps transfer rate, and 60ms latency. I was kind of forced into getting
the line after finding out that the normal, analog phone lines at my new
residence weren't even capable of handling a solid 14.4 Kbps connection
(This was a GTE equipment limitation, not a domestic wiring problem).
Installation costs were fairly low because I agreed to keep the line for
at least a year.
FSI can handle the server side of ISDN calls at our Pullman dialup number,
so we can provide the internet connectivity side for the extremely
reasonable price of $240/year.
> GTE is rolling out DSL (or ASDL, or whatever other alphabet soup variation)
> in Pullman. They won't do so in Moscow without an "anchor client," a major
> client willing to install umpteen lines. Incidentally, a little bird told
> me that preliminary tests in Pullman show that this technology will only
> give high speed on one sixth of the lines there.
I don't doubt it. I've seen all the USWest and GTE disclaimers... they
don't guarantee snot for connectivity speeds. I've also seen GTE's behind
the scenes ISP connection method and, while it allows you to use the ISP
of your choice, it is limited to T1 speeds (1.5 Mbit/sec).
> I contacted the cable franchise, and told things would happen in the first
> six months of next year. But your estimate of YEARS may be more recent
> than my findings, or may be given by someone who knew more (or less) than
> the person I spoke to.
I'd be hesitant to see how well this technology performs. Does anybody
know if this is a shared resource or not? If it is shared, I can see
connectivity speeds suffering during internet prime time (7pm-midnight).
I certainly hope Century does *something* soon, though. I'm getting tired
of the poor signal quality in the evenings. And, I'm betting they'll have
to do some sort of equipment upgrade to handle the emerging HDTV
technology.
> Another option is to use Multilink PPP technology. I actually examined and
> tried this, and will detail my experience (and why I quit, for now).
>
> Multilink PPP uses two modems (or a dual modem) in tandem (with two
> separate phone lines) to achieve quasi-fast access. I had a 28k modem and
> thought that I could effectively quadruple my access speed by switching to
> a dual 56k modem. This, incidentally, would be close to ISDN speed. The
> technology allowed you to use call waiting to interrupt one line. So I
> could connect with the fax/modem line at 56k, add the second line when I
> was not on the phone, and should a voice call come in, call waiting would
> bump me off the voice line, while maintaining the other line (only works on
> one line, not both).
>
> Well, there were problems. Such as the fact that the call waiting feature
> did not work on either line. So I would either have to add a third phone
> line (extra expense) or lose use of my voice line when I chose to use both
> lines. Of course, I wouldn't have to use both lines (I could just use the
> one), but doesn't that defeat the purpose?
>
> Equally disappointing was the fact that my phone lines could only achieve a
> speed of about 26,400, even with a 56k modem. So when using only one line,
> I was at the same speed as when I had my 28k modem. Instead of quadrupling
> my connect speed, I only doubled it (when disabling my phone line). Try to
> call GTE to ask them to improve modem speed. They only guarantee 21,000 baud.
Ouch. Did they install a line splitter when you got your additional line?
I forget the technical term for it, but essentially it allows two voice
calls to use one pair of copper wire. It has the same detrimental effect
you describe: poor connection speeds. (This is what caused my own phone
line problems.)
If you could "force" GTE to use a copper wire pair for each individual
phone line, it should work as you initially thought it would.
> The cost?
> Modem: $200
> Call waiting: $ 4/month, plus $10 set-up fee
> Extra ISP account: $ 15/month
>
> For quadruple modem speed, acceptable. For same modem speed, and double
> when knocking out my voice line, unacceptable. Return modem, cancel extra
> ISP account, cancel call waiting, lose $10 set-up fee and over a day's
> labor trying to get the thing to work, and then uninstalling and returning
> the modem.
>
> Should Turbonet inform me that the modem manufacturer has fixed the
> problems with call waiting, I might give it another try. Check back around
> October.
>
> Here's another possibility: If you are a new business, you might try
> moving into the business incubator (affiliated with the University). Last
> I heard, they had access that was close to ISDN speed. They might have
> even increased speed.
The incubator does have a 128 Kbps frame relay connection. While the top
speed is near identical to an ISDN line, it is a lot more responsive. This
is due to the difference between 60ms packet latency with ISDN and below
10ms latency with frame relay.
As far as connectivity goes, frame connections aren't really affordable
for an individual. The numbers are fuzzy, but I think the ballpark figures
are $400/mo for 128K and $1000/mo for full T1 (including both ISP and
GTE line charges) plus whatever installation charges and equipment
investments that need to be made. Bandwidth needs can be tailored, though,
in 64K increments.
> But I agree, in a town with a major university, you'd think that there
> would be more options. However, a trade article I read a while ago stated
> that high-speed access would not be a reality for the majority of Americans
> until somewhere around 2003-2005. Pay through the nose, or put up with
> slow access. I've decided to do the latter for a while longer.
First of all, thank God this isn't Lewiston because telecommunication
options are much worse there. (RANT: 1930's *mechanical* switch
technology?!? COME ON, USWEST! Get with the program!) Idaho seems to be
left out of most of the fun, and it amazes me just how many services GTE
does allow us because of the high amount of coordination between the
Moscow & Pullman switches.
As soon as our telecommunication infrastructure moves away from analog to
completely digital transmissions, our connection speeds will go through
the roof. If you really want high connection speeds, you could go to work
for an ISP. *big grin*
___ ___ ___
| __/ __|_ _| Mike Harshbarger, First Step Internet
| _|\__ \| | System & Network Administrator
|_| |___/___| (208) 882-8869 / 1-888-676-6377
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Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 00:53:58 EDT
To: vision2020@moscow.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Subject: Deputy Tim...
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>It is unfortunate that the v2020 list is comprised mostly of JERKS!!!!!
Well, lots of opinionated individuals at least. I'm not certain about the
"jerks" part . . . but I'm new here.
My beef with Moscow/Latah county would have to do with certain LEOs. My
friend and I got caught north of Moscow behind that three-vehicle accident
that shut down the road for three hours. We decided to walk up, like many
many others, but were turned back by, I believe, a Latah County Sheriff with
the first name of Tim.
He immediately pulled a power-trip, addressing us loudly, "Gentlemen, can I
have you return to your car..." We stopped and informed him that several
others had walked up ahead of us. He then stated, "Gentlemen, I've asked you
to return to your vehicle...," like then next step was a boot to the head.
I can understand the attitude on Deputy Tim's part. Lots of individuals, not
all, become LEO's to make up for some weakness of character. It's a fact that
some cops are bad at being cops. Have to live with that.
But later Deputy Tim, engaged in the very important duty of placing flares at
the head of the traffic jam (like anyone was going to pass the several hundred
cars stopped on the road and, if they did so, like flares would cause them to
reconsider their action), unwrapped a pack of flares and tossed the plastic
wrapper on the ground! Within twenty feet on each side of the road were
"Adopt a Highway" signs, and Deputy Tim is littering...
Luckily a young lady who was apparently doing a ride-along with another Deputy
spotted the wrapper about ten minutes later and went out of her way to pick it
up.
Beautiful rolling farmhills, deer populating the fields and stands of wood,
and Deputy Tim, a sworn law ENFORCEMENT officer, is littering.
And the worst thing is that my friend and I were unwilling to challenge Deputy
Tim on this because he had proven himself to be an asshole through his power-
trip and total lack of respect for us as citizens. We certainly didn't need
to get Deputy Tim yanking us out of our car and interrogating us.
E. O'Daniel
law student
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Comments: Authenticated sender is <jeffg@mail.turbonet.com>
From: "Jeff Griffin" <jeffg@turbonet.com>
To: vision2020@moscow.com
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 22:57:50 -0800
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Subject: Re: Deputy Tim...
Reply-to: jeffg@turbonet.com
CC: "Mark A. Griffin" <griffin@mpamacs.org>, bprice@uidaho.edu,
jcampbel@uidaho.edu, a-josekh@MICROSOFT.com
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> My beef with Moscow/Latah county would have to do with certain LEOs. My
> friend and I got caught north of Moscow behind that three-vehicle accident
> that shut down the road for three hours. We decided to walk up, like many
> many others, but were turned back by, I believe, a Latah County Sheriff with
> the first name of Tim.
>
> He immediately pulled a power-trip, addressing us loudly, "Gentlemen, can I
> have you return to your car..." We stopped and informed him that several
> others had walked up ahead of us. He then stated, "Gentlemen, I've asked you
> to return to your vehicle...," like then next step was a boot to the head.
> And the worst thing is that my friend and I were unwilling to challenge Deputy
> Tim on this because he had proven himself to be an asshole through his power-
> trip and total lack of respect for us as citizens. We certainly didn't need
> to get Deputy Tim yanking us out of our car and interrogating us.
>
> E. O'Daniel
> law student
>
>
Let me get this straight: Some guy is out standing on the side of
the road, all by himself, and his boss has told him to turn back all
of the nosy ghoulish gawkers that could get in the way of people with
work to do, and he uses the skills he's been taught, i.e., loud
voice, formal mode of address...... And you _argue_ with him?
Who really showed a lack of respect in this instance?
Jeff Griffin jeffg@turbonet.com
Affirmative Technologies http://www.affirmnet.com/
Affirmative Technologies provides complete solutions to the
electronic publishing needs of small businesses and organizations.
1575 100660 50 50 7046 6567032635 10102 0 ustar slist slist From owner-vision2020 Thu Aug 20 07:41:27 1998
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From: "Nick Sanyal" <nsanyal@uidaho.edu>
To: <Erikus4@aol.com>, <vision2020@moscow.com>
Subject: Re: Deputy Tim...
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 07:43:06 -0700
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Sounds like the real power trip here is in your signature "Law student".
It's because of people like you that accidents and crime sites need extra
LEO's just to keep the gawkers away, and our tax bills high. It IS
unfortunate about the littering though, but it did get cleaned up. And the
quip about the flares - seems like a uniformed officer wasn't enough to keep
you away. Happy ambulance chasing!
-----Original Message-----
From: Erikus4@aol.com <Erikus4@aol.com>
To: vision2020@moscow.com <vision2020@moscow.com>
Date: 19 August, 1998 09:54 PM
Subject: Deputy Tim...
>>It is unfortunate that the v2020 list is comprised mostly of JERKS!!!!!
>
>Well, lots of opinionated individuals at least. I'm not certain about the
>"jerks" part . . . but I'm new here.
>
>My beef with Moscow/Latah county would have to do with certain LEOs. My
>friend and I got caught north of Moscow behind that three-vehicle accident
>that shut down the road for three hours. We decided to walk up, like many
>many others, but were turned back by, I believe, a Latah County Sheriff
with
>the first name of Tim.
>
>He immediately pulled a power-trip, addressing us loudly, "Gentlemen, can I
>have you return to your car..." We stopped and informed him that several
>others had walked up ahead of us. He then stated, "Gentlemen, I've asked
you
>to return to your vehicle...," like then next step was a boot to the head.
>
>I can understand the attitude on Deputy Tim's part. Lots of individuals,
not
>all, become LEO's to make up for some weakness of character. It's a fact
that
>some cops are bad at being cops. Have to live with that.
>
>But later Deputy Tim, engaged in the very important duty of placing flares
at
>the head of the traffic jam (like anyone was going to pass the several
hundred
>cars stopped on the road and, if they did so, like flares would cause them
to
>reconsider their action), unwrapped a pack of flares and tossed the plastic
>wrapper on the ground! Within twenty feet on each side of the road were
>"Adopt a Highway" signs, and Deputy Tim is littering...
>
>Luckily a young lady who was apparently doing a ride-along with another
Deputy
>spotted the wrapper about ten minutes later and went out of her way to pick
it
>up.
>
>Beautiful rolling farmhills, deer populating the fields and stands of wood,
>and Deputy Tim, a sworn law ENFORCEMENT officer, is littering.
>
>And the worst thing is that my friend and I were unwilling to challenge
Deputy
>Tim on this because he had proven himself to be an asshole through his
power-
>trip and total lack of respect for us as citizens. We certainly didn't
need
>to get Deputy Tim yanking us out of our car and interrogating us.
>
>E. O'Daniel
>law student
>
1576 100660 50 50 2523 6567100234 10065 0 ustar slist slist From owner-vision2020 Thu Aug 20 13:01:23 1998
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Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 13:03:56 -0800
To: vision2020@moscow.com
From: leoames@moscow.com (Leo E. Ames)
Subject: Re: Deputy Tim...
>E. O'Daniel
>law student
You relate an interesting anecdote and some disturbing littering
behavior, however, my "beef" is with your characterization of one
exhibiting such behavior. You wrote:
>My beef with Moscow/Latah county would have to do with certain LEOs.
>...Lots of individuals, not all, become LEO's to make up for some weakness of
>character.
As one who became "Leo" from my parents at birth, I've never heard
the name associated with such bad behavior, except for some historical
character. Perhaps you watch different movies or videos than I.
Anyway, Erik, I think you do the Leos of the world a disservice
with such a stereotyping sentence. After living with it well over a half a
century, I kind of like the name --- actually.
(:-) .... Leo Ames, Moscow.
1577 100660 50 50 7430 6567105246 10100 0 ustar slist slist From owner-vision2020 Thu Aug 20 13:44:17 1998
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Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 13:41:59 -0700
To: vision2020@moscow.com
From: Robert Hoffmann <escape@alt-escape.com>
Subject: Re: Deputy Tim...
In-Reply-To: <199808202001.NAA08406@mail-gw.fsr.net>
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At 01:03 PM 8/20/98 -0800, you wrote:
>>E. O'Daniel
>>law student
>
> You relate an interesting anecdote and some disturbing littering
>behavior, however, my "beef" is with your characterization of one
>exhibiting such behavior. You wrote:
>>My beef with Moscow/Latah county would have to do with certain LEOs.
>>...Lots of individuals, not all, become LEO's to make up for some
weakness of
>>character.
>
> As one who became "Leo" from my parents at birth, I've never heard
>the name associated with such bad behavior, except for some historical
>character. Perhaps you watch different movies or videos than I.
>
> Anyway, Erik, I think you do the Leos of the world a disservice
>with such a stereotyping sentence. After living with it well over a half a
>century, I kind of like the name --- actually.
>
> (:-) .... Leo Ames, Moscow.
I thought I would keep out of this, but now I realize there is more at
stake. I recently celebrated my birthday on August 11. Therefore, I am
also a Leo (although my name is Bob). Leo's are noted for a number of
character traits such as pushiness, arrogance, exceedingly high
self-confidence, a desire to be in the limelight, etc. But I have never
heard any astrologer state that Leo's have "weakness of character."
About the incident that occurred between the initiator of this dialog and
the LEO, was that at the accident that resulted in one woman being killed,
her husband being seriously injured, and a 19-year-old boy being seriously
banged up? Now I know that three hours is a long time to wait to get
through an accident scene, but can you imagine these emergency personnel
dealing with all that blood, gore, pain, wrecked vehicles, etc., only to
have a bunch of rubberneckers (who apparently haven't seen enough episodes
of "Cops" on TV) get out and come strolling around? If I arrived at such a
scene, I would ask myself several questions:
1) Am I an emergency medical technician or other disaster relief-type
individual?
2) Do I have any medical/first aid experience, AND could I be of help on
the scene?
3) Am I a member of the press?
If my answer to all of these questions is "No," then I have no business
getting near the accident. It was literally a matter of life and death.
Some lived, some died. What is personal curiosity worth in the equasion?
If I am administering first aid or using the "Jaws of Life" to tear off a
car door, the last thing I need is someone getting in the way or
scrutinizing me as I do my job.
Maybe the "Law Student" hasn't had a class yet where they discuss police
powers at accident and crime scenes. If I had to be gruff to maintain the
security of such a scene, I wouldn't think twice. Expedience is the goal.
Life and death are more important than a rubbernecker's tender feelings.
Robert Hoffmann 115 N. Jackson St., Suite D
Alt-Escape Adventures Moscow, ID 83843 USA
http://www.alt-escape.com Phone: (208) 883-0642
Fax: (208) 883-8545
1578 100660 50 50 1333 6567205476 10103 0 ustar slist slist From owner-vision2020 Thu Aug 20 22:52:58 1998
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Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 22:52:56 -0700 (PDT)
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To: vision2020@moscow.com
From: donell@moscow.com (Don Roskovich)
Subject: Re: Deputy Tim...
Relax, guys.......LEO has nothing to do with astrological birth signs or
given names. LEO...........Law Enforcement Officer!!!! HA!
Ellen
1579 100660 50 50 2702 6567307207 10100 0 ustar slist slist From owner-vision2020 Fri Aug 21 08:13:07 1998
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Message-ID: <35DD8E08.A67B4152@uidaho.edu>
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 08:11:04 -0700
From: Ron Force <rforce@uidaho.edu>
Reply-To: rforce@uidaho.edu
Organization: University of Idaho Library
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To: vision2020@moscow.com
Subject: Re: Deputy Tim...
References: <199808210552.WAA22222@mail-gw.fsr.net>
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Regarding rubberneckers at accident sites: The Washington Supreme Court
just opined that spectators who were not kept away from an accident site
could sue the state for emotional distress.
The two cases under discussion were spectators who discovered that close
relatives were among the injured/killed.
Source: NWPR, this morning.
***********************************************************************
Ron Force rforce@uidaho.edu
Dean of Library Services (208) 885-6534
University of Idaho Moscow 83844
************************************************************************
1580 100660 50 50 2263 6567352444 10075 0 ustar slist slist From owner-vision2020 Fri Aug 21 13:14:20 1998
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Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 13:12:39 -0700
To: Larry Hodge <hodge@moscow.com>, Pam Palmer <ppalmer@moscow.com>,
Vision 2020 <vision2020@moscow.com>
From: Gib Myers <gmyers@moscow.com>
Subject: moscow administrative committee agenda
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CITY OF MOSCOW
ADMINISTRATIVE COMMITTEE AGENDA
MONDAY August 24, 1998 3:30 p.m.
Council Chambers - City Hall
206 East 3rd Street
1. Approval of Minutes of August 17, 1998
2. Stormwater Control Ordinance Status - Gary Presol
3. City Entrance Signs - Gary J. Riedner
Council Agenda Item #8
REPORTS:
FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS:
Scheduled:
9/10/98 Hyett-Palma Workshop Planning
Unscheduled:
Adopt a Street Program
Retail Use of Public Right-of-Way in Central Business District
Area of City Impact Rules between City and County
Idaho Fair Housing Commission
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To: Larry Hodge <hodge@moscow.com>, Pam Palmer <ppalmer@moscow.com>,
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From: Gib Myers <gmyers@moscow.com>
Subject: moscow public works committee agenda
Mime-Version: 1.0
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CITY OF MOSCOW
PUBLIC WORKS/FINANCE COMMITTEE
Agenda for Monday, August 24, 1998 4:30 p.m.
City Hall Council Chambers, 206 East Third Street, Second Floor
***********************************************************************
1. Approval of Minutes of August 3, 1998
2. Accounts Payable for Month of July, 1998 - Jim Wallace
3. Final Plat Development Agreement Quail Run Second Addition - Dale Pernula
Council Agenda Item #4
4. Mountain View Storm Sewer Change Order No. 1 - Gary Presol
Council Consent Agenda #1C
5. City Entrance Signs - Gary J. Riedner
Council Agenda Item #8
REPORTS:
Stormwater Control Ordinance Status - Gary Presol
FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS:
Scheduled:
Unscheduled:
Paradise Creek Overall Project - Gary Presol
Policy Regarding Sidewalk Repair/Maintenance - Roger Blanchard
1582 100660 50 50 6347 6567600225 10077 0 ustar slist slist From owner-vision2020 Sat Aug 22 10:31:59 1998
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Reply-To: <@moscow.com>
From: "Mark Miller" <mjmiller@moscow.com>
To: <Erikus4@aol.com>, <vision2020@moscow.com>
Subject: Re: Deputy Tim...
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 10:27:00 -0700
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dear e. o'daniel,
you are a law student? with your attitude, you don't stand a chance.
being new to the community, you had better step back and take a look at
things in a little better perspective. don't forget, if you do make it in
law school, which i strongly doubt happens, you are "stuck" here for a
while.
welcome to moscow! now go home.
sincerely,
mark miller
----------
> From: Erikus4@aol.com
> To: vision2020@moscow.com
> Subject: Deputy Tim...
> Date: Wednesday, August 19, 1998 9:53 PM
>
> >It is unfortunate that the v2020 list is comprised mostly of JERKS!!!!!
>
> Well, lots of opinionated individuals at least. I'm not certain about
the
> "jerks" part . . . but I'm new here.
>
> My beef with Moscow/Latah county would have to do with certain LEOs. My
> friend and I got caught north of Moscow behind that three-vehicle
accident
> that shut down the road for three hours. We decided to walk up, like
many
> many others, but were turned back by, I believe, a Latah County Sheriff
with
> the first name of Tim.
>
> He immediately pulled a power-trip, addressing us loudly, "Gentlemen, can
I
> have you return to your car..." We stopped and informed him that several
> others had walked up ahead of us. He then stated, "Gentlemen, I've asked
you
> to return to your vehicle...," like then next step was a boot to the
head.
>
> I can understand the attitude on Deputy Tim's part. Lots of individuals,
not
> all, become LEO's to make up for some weakness of character. It's a fact
that
> some cops are bad at being cops. Have to live with that.
>
> But later Deputy Tim, engaged in the very important duty of placing
flares at
> the head of the traffic jam (like anyone was going to pass the several
hundred
> cars stopped on the road and, if they did so, like flares would cause
them to
> reconsider their action), unwrapped a pack of flares and tossed the
plastic
> wrapper on the ground! Within twenty feet on each side of the road were
> "Adopt a Highway" signs, and Deputy Tim is littering...
>
> Luckily a young lady who was apparently doing a ride-along with another
Deputy
> spotted the wrapper about ten minutes later and went out of her way to
pick it
> up.
>
> Beautiful rolling farmhills, deer populating the fields and stands of
wood,
> and Deputy Tim, a sworn law ENFORCEMENT officer, is littering.
>
> And the worst thing is that my friend and I were unwilling to challenge
Deputy
> Tim on this because he had proven himself to be an asshole through his
power-
> trip and total lack of respect for us as citizens. We certainly didn't
need
> to get Deputy Tim yanking us out of our car and interrogating us.
>
> E. O'Daniel
> law student
1583 100660 50 50 4717 6567616540 10106 0 ustar slist slist From owner-vision2020 Sat Aug 22 12:34:53 1998
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Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 15:31:43 EDT
To: vision2020@moscow.com
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C'mon people. Don't mince words. Your "welcome to Moscow" was
heartwarming...
I suppose I should clarify that my friend and I didn't argue with Deputy Tim,
but merely informed him that many people made it past him and up to the
accident. We promptly turned around and returned to our vehicle. We supposed
that he would be interested in getting those people back to their vehicles.
He wasn't.
I am completely aware of police powers and the ability of police to prevent
people from approaching an accident. I support the police and the job they
do. I don't support police officers who act like Deputy Tim. I don't ignore
their instructions or in any other way attempt to subvert their authority, but
I believe we would do better to have police who did not act in this manner.
As for the several attacks about my being a law student. I include this
merely as an indication of my position in this community. I've noticed that
several others put their address or their business. I imagined it provided a
bit more insight into the poster and his position. I've realized that it
provides ammunition for the small-minded to attack a poster.
As for those who simply attack lawyers and the law. Your ignorance is
astounding. As for those who were very concerned about my future in law, I'm
sure you have more important things to worry about. I'm flattered you'd waste
your time worrying about me, but it isn't necessary.
As for those who were insulted astrologically or by birthname through my
characterization of LEOs, thank god a few people in Moscow have a sense of
humor.
My wife and I have been very impressed with Moscow and the surrounding area,
especially with regard to outdoor recreation and the general beauty of the
area. I still don't know if the people add or detract from the area...
E. O'Daniel
new to Moscow...
1584 100660 50 50 2245 6567620330 10071 0 ustar slist slist From owner-vision2020 Sat Aug 22 12:49:41 1998
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Reply-To: "MoscowSam" <MoscowSam@moscow.com>
From: "MoscowSam" <MoscowSam@moscow.com>
To: <Vision2020@moscow.com>
Subject: V2020 ATTITUDES re "Deputy Tim"
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 12:47:56 -0700
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Saturday, 8-22-98
I have been away for about 11 days.
In reviewing my back email, I am surprised at the biting attitude which seems to
pervade the "discussion" of the "Deputy Tim" missive.
V2020 is, indeed, supposed to be a forum, which includes being "critical" in
one's expression, but the "flavor" of the replies posted to the list seem to not
have the courtesy, consideration and civility I expect from Moscowans and
Vision2020ers.
Or have I been out of town too long? Am I missing something?
Sam Scripter
MoscowSam@moscow.com
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Message-ID: <001401bdce0f$9f677230$4cf2f5c7@hal2000>
From: "Jerry L. Schutz" <jschutz@moscow.com>
To: "MoscowSam" <MoscowSam@moscow.com>, <Vision2020@moscow.com>
Subject: Re: V2020 ATTITUDES re "Deputy Tim"
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 13:58:28 -0700
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Sam, I too hav ebeen outta town for about a week...I am also concerned that
the civility that is normal for V2020 is missing, I hope it's just the heat
and not a portent of things to come.
Jerry
-----Original Message-----
From: MoscowSam <MoscowSam@moscow.com>
To: Vision2020@moscow.com <Vision2020@moscow.com>
Date: Saturday, August 22, 1998 12:49 PM
Subject: V2020 ATTITUDES re "Deputy Tim"
>Saturday, 8-22-98
>
>I have been away for about 11 days.
>
>In reviewing my back email, I am surprised at the biting attitude which
seems to
>pervade the "discussion" of the "Deputy Tim" missive.
>
>V2020 is, indeed, supposed to be a forum, which includes being "critical"
in
>one's expression, but the "flavor" of the replies posted to the list seem
to not
>have the courtesy, consideration and civility I expect from Moscowans and
>Vision2020ers.
>
>Or have I been out of town too long? Am I missing something?
>
>Sam Scripter
>MoscowSam@moscow.com
>
>
1586 100660 50 50 2356 6567634454 10112 0 ustar slist slist From owner-vision2020 Sat Aug 22 14:33:29 1998
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From: "bill london" <bill_london@hotmail.com>
To: vision2020@moscow.com
Subject: community retreat party
Content-Type: text/plain
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 14:30:55 PDT
Best laid plans, etc....
I had earlier announced that our Community Retreat party (the
report-unveiling, cake-consuming, fun-filled event we've all been
looking forward to) was set for Sept 10.
Not good. Sept 10 is also the Alturas Business Park opening excitement.
Therefore, we have changed the date.
Please mark your calendars again for Tuesday, Sept 22. 4:30pm to 6:30pm
at the Moscow Community Center.
Expect the same fun, the same balloons, the same refreshments. See ya
then....BL
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
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From: "bill london" <bill_london@hotmail.com>
To: vision2020@moscow.com
Cc: letters@moscow.com
Subject: free food at community celebration
Content-Type: text/plain
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 14:48:13 PDT
One of the pillars of the Moscow community--an institution that helps
make Moscow unique and enjoyable--is turning 25 this month. And you can
get free food and prizes as part of the celebration.
The Co-op is sponsoring the fourth annual Taste Fair on Saturday, August
29, under the big tent in the Co-op parking lot at 310 West Third.
Please come and sample, at no charge, a variety of foods and beverages.
The Taste Fair will be held from 10am to 4pm.
The Taste Fair will also be the Co-op's 25th birthday celebration, with
cake for everyone. In addition, the Co-op will have a door prize
drawing with dozens of prizes--from T-shirts to bags of beans--to be
given away. The grand prize is a $250 shopping spree.
The Moscow Food Co-op was founded in 1973, and along the way has grown
into a solid local business that consistently supports local growers and
producers as well as progressive community programs that benefit all of
us. The Moscow Farmers' Market, for example, was started by the Co-op.
The Taste Fair and birthday bash will also provide an opportunity for
people to learn more about the Co-op's move to the present Third Street
Market and how they can help make that move happen.
See you there.
Bill London
auses
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
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Reply-To: <sduncan@turbonet.com>
From: "Sam and Debbie Duncan" <sduncan@turbonet.com>
To: "Robert Hoffmann" <escape@alt-escape.com>
Cc: <vision2020@moscow.com>
Subject: Re: LMT article dtd 3 Aug 98
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 06:03:59 -0700
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
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Robert, you could probably send all the Idaho students to college tuition
free if you just eliminated atheletics and the gigantic budgets.
As for teacher continuing education, Drs. nurses, pharmacists, and other
professionals are required to stay current at their (our ) own expense.
Thats part of the tool bag they bring to work, a minimum expected
requirement.
Sam Duncan
----------
> From: Robert Hoffmann <escape@alt-escape.com>
> To: vision2020@moscow.com
> Subject: Re: LMT article dtd 3 Aug 98
> Date: Wednesday, August 05, 1998 9:44 AM
>
> At 08:38 AM 8/5/98 -0700, you wrote:
> >
> >I find this rhetoric troubling. We "employers" are not willing to pay
> >public school teachers a decent wage but nonetheless expect them to
> >continue to school themselves, be creative, etc. etc. etc. The fact
that
> >some people continue to do so far beyond anything reasonable is amazing.
> >The fact that only a few day is completely understandable.
> >
> >Dale Goble
> >
> Let's turn over 90% of the defense budget (or more accurately, the Budget
> for Foreign Military Intervention) to domestic purposes, and I bet we
could
> raise the education level in the U.S. to that of a First World Nation.
Of
> course, we could simultaneously provide universal health care,
> comprehensive unemployment benefits & job retraining, major environmental
> initiatives, desperately needed infrastructure investment, youth
programs,
> care for the elderly & handicapped, and other things that our government
> doesn't define as worthy to "defend."
>
> Robert Hoffmann 115 N. Jackson St., Suite D
> Alt-Escape Adventures Moscow, ID 83843 USA
> http://www.alt-escape.com Phone: (208) 883-0642
> Fax: (208) 883-8545
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Comments: Authenticated sender is <curley@mail.turbonet.com>
From: curley@CYPHER.TURBONET.COM
To: Erikus4@aol.com
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 10:04:16 +0000
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Subject: Re: Deputy Tim...
CC: vision2020@moscow.com
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Mr. O'Daniel:
Well, as you have seen, there are a number of folks who (a) wondered
about your motivation in identifying yourself as " law student" and
(b) jumped to defend Deputy Tim. I will assume that you appended
"law student" just as others identify their work (sometimes with a
little advertising slogan at the bottom), and not because you thought
the appellation would cloak you with a superior knowledge of law
enforcement officer (LEO) technique and procedure. And, I guess I
read your comment about Deputy Tim NOT as a complaint that you
weren't able to get to the scene of the accident to be in the way and
view the terrible losses that were sustained, but as a complaint
about the way Deputy Tim treated innocent bystanders (when he
presumably didn't know that he should be treating you badly because
you are a law student). I will assume that you had no intention of
being in the way--that in fact, since you were a mile or more back of
the scene, you may not have had any idea why cars were stopped or how
long you were likely to be there--and that maybe an anticipated long
delay would have prompted you to consider turning around and taking
an alternate route into the city if that was possible.
It has not been my experience around Moscow that law enforcement
officers are surly or rude, but that they largely mirror the attitude
of the majority of the community--to the extent they can consistent
with the work they do. I have known some students (and other
younger adults) to complain about their treatment by some officers,
and I think that is unfortunate to the extent it occurs (regardless,
of course, of the age of the "recipient") when it is unnecessary for
the situation. In a job that can require an officer to put her or
his life on the line, it may be a lot to ask that when others have
more closely approached an accident scene (you didn't mention how
close you really were) that the officer you encounter say something
like: "there is a serious accident up there, and I'm going to have
to ask you to stay back beyond ____" , but I hope and believe that
most Moscow/Latah County officers would do so. I don't know Deputy
Tim, and I don't know what he had encountered that day before you.
Maybe a bunch of unruly, disrespectful "rubbernecks" as someone else
called them. Maybe he had been pushed around by a superior, who
knows? Maybe his response to you was untypical for him. We can
recognize that some officers enjoy asserting their authority in
excess of what is needed for the situation and hope that Deputy Tim
isn't one of them. Courtesy may not be a job requirement, but it
sure helps keep the citizens more respectful of an officer's
authority and the pronouncements that are a necessary part of
fulfilling the duties of the position.
Thanks for mentioning the incident. Just because heroic efforts were
being made by law officers, medical personnel, and other emergency
personnel who responded to the tragic scene, doesn't mean everyone
on the periphery behaved as well as we would hope. I think most of
us stuck in a line of cars without knowing why would like some
information when it could reasonably be made available to us. And,
if I'm standing in the wrong spot, a simple "would you please move
over there" would probably suffice.
There just isn't much excuse for the littering, is there? I wouldn't
excuse one of my children for it just because I happened to be around
to pick up their trash--even if I were defending them from a law
student pointing out the error of their ways.
Good luck in your legal career. I hope you are as sensitive to the
needs of your clients as you would like Deputy Tim to have been to
you.
And, a word of advice--I wouldn't be speeding, littering, or
committing any other infractions in front of Deputy Tim if I were
you--in fact, I don't think I would do that if I were me.
Mike Curley
reply to: curley@turbonet.com
208-882-3536
1590 100660 50 50 10462 6570052355 10106 0 ustar slist slist From owner-vision2020 Sun Aug 23 10:44:08 1998
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Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 10:43:25 -0700
From: Rick <rgerrard@gte.net>
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To: vision2020@moscow.com
CC: rick.gerrard@telops.gte.com
Subject: Infrastructure Improvement
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I'd like to attempt to clarify a few of the points discussed last week
under the subject "Infrastructure improvements". First, I should tell
those of you who do not know me that I am an account manager for GTE in
Moscow. I have account responsibility for the University of Idaho and
Washington State University, among others.
ADSL
My assumption here is that the reader is familiar with ADSL. If you are
not, and you're interested, please go to www.gte.com/dsl,
www.orckit.com/knowledge.html, or you may contact me at
rick.gerrard@telops.gte.com, or you may call me at 883-2505.
ADSL has been available in Pullman for a couple weeks and is in
operation at a couple sites there. Pullman made the GTE ADSL roll out
list ahead of places such as Los Angeles because we are working on a
project with an anchor tenant in Pullman. I have been pushing to get
ADSL in Moscow as soon as possible and, unless a large customer steps up
soon, which would move the time frame up, I expect ADSL to be available
here in the first half of 1999. I live in Moscow and I am as anxious as
anyone to have ADSL in Moscow.
Because ADSL is being rolled out so quickly in large markets across the
country, some people within GTE may not yet be aware that we turned it
up a couple weeks ago in Pullman. I apologize to Mr. Guyer and others
for the misinformation.
I don't know where the misinformation started that ADSL will be
available on only one in six lines in Pullman. I have seen nothing in
the technical specifications to support this assertion. There are
technical restrictions that apply to ADSL technology regardless of who
your service provider is. The most important to keep in mind is that
ADSL works only within 18,000 feet of the serving central office. GTE
can easily check your individual line to determine if there may be any
problems with providing the service to your residence or business.
To order ADSL, you must have a "content provider" to whom you will be
connecting. This could be the company for which you work, a university
with which you have an affiliation, or an internet service provider. I
am aware of three internet service providers that are ready (or nearly
so) to provide ADSL service in Pullman. I recommend you start with your
content provider to order ADSL service.
ADSL Pricing (hopefully this will clear up some misconceptions)
Installation is $60
Bronze 64Kbps X 256Kbps - $40 Month to month, $35 monthly with a one
year contract, $32 monthly with a three year contract.
Silver 384Kbps X 384Kbps - $60 Month to month, $55 monthly with a
one year contract, $49 monthly with a three year contract.
Gold 768Kbps X 768Kbps - $80 Month to month, $70 monthly with a one
year contract, $63 monthly with a three year contract.
Platinum 1.5Mbps X 1.5Mbps - $120 Month to month, $100 monthly with
a one year contract, $85 monthly with a three year contract.
Keep in mind that the above pricing is for the ADSL service only. You
will still have the cost of your telephone service for voice (even
though ADSL uses the same pair of copper wires your telephone uses) and
you will have the cost of your content provider. However, if you have a
second telephone line for your modem, as I do, you will save the monthly
cost of that when you go to ADSL.
If ADSL were available in Moscow today, would you purchase the service?
If so, please let me know which level you would buy. By doing so, you
can help me make the case for getting ADSL here sooner.
My apologies for this being so long winded. Please let me know if I can
clarify any of the other issues that ran through the "Infrastructure
Improvement" thread last week.
1591 100660 50 50 2020 6570124500 10046 0 ustar slist slist From owner-vision2020 Sun Aug 23 16:43:57 1998
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Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 16:43:54 -0700 (PDT)
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To: vision2020@moscow.com
From: ttrail@moscow.com (Tom Trail)
Subject: Income Inequality
Students of inequality and community life may be interested in Monday's (Aug 17)
Washington Post article--www.washingtonpost.com--(Outlook Section, p. 1) on
how income disparities shorten human life spans--not just of the poor, but
everyone, thought, of course, the poor pay more. An unsubstantiated
statement suggests other forms of inequality also negatively impact health and
other phenomenoa.
Tom Trail
Dr. Tom Trail
International Trails
2039 Mt. View Rd.
Moscow, Id. 83843
Tel: (208) 882-6077
Fax: (208) 882-0896
e mail ttrail@moscow.com
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Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 12:02:44 -0700 (PDT)
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To: vision2020
From: ttrail@moscow.com (Tom Trail)
Subject: EXTED> School Modernization Teleconference
Visionaries: There is an opportunity to participate in a school modernization
teleconference on September 8th. The relevant information is outlined below.
School faciltiies and school technology will be among the major education
legislative initiatives for the 99 Idaho Legislative Session.
Rep. Tom Trail/Dist. 5
>>
>>Colleagues,
>>What does "school modernization" (see below) imply regarding the
>>everyday relationships between teachers, pupils, administrators,
>>stakeholders? Is the impact on elementary and seconda y education
>>qualitatively or quantitatively different from that on colleges and
>>universities?
>>John
>>
>> "With the number of school-age children at a record high and growing,
>> schools across the country already are at or beyond capacity.
>> One-third of our schools need to be modernized. Nearly half don't
>> have the wiring to support basic computer equipment. The federal
>> government helps to build roads and bridges and other infrastructure
>> projects because they are in the national interest. But none of that
>> will matter if we do not see that our national interest in an adequate
>> education infrastructure is also preserved."
>> -President Clinton
>>
>> National School Modernization Day: September 8
>>
>> A free, live teleconference with President Clinton, U.S. Secretary of
>> Education Richard Riley and other leaders to highlight the need for:
>> School Construction and Renovation
>> Smaller Class Sizes with Well-Prepared Teachers
>> Access to Educational Technology
>>
>> All Americans concerned about education are urged to join President
>> Clinton in national and local events on September 8 to underscore the
>> importance of providing students with safe and modern facilities,
>> educational technology, and the personal attention they need in order
>> to excel. President Clinton will release new figures for total school
>> enrollment on a state-by-state basis, as well as projections for
>> future enrollment growth. Each local event will have the opportunity
>> to link by satellite or other method to an event with President
>> Clinton.
>>
>> At schools and other locations across the Nation, Members of Congress,
>> local officials, parents, educators, and concerned business and
>> community leaders will come together to discuss:
>> The challenges they face in their own local schools;
>> How parents, communities, and state and local governments can get
>> involved; and
>> How the Clinton Administration is working to address these needs
>> through current initiatives and legislative proposals that:
>> help provide interest-free bonds for communities to build
>> and modernize schools;
>> help school districts hire well-prepared teachers to reduce
>> class sizes in the early grades; and
>> help every child have access to a computer connected to the
>> Internet.
>>
>> HERE'S HOW YOU CAN GET INVOLVED:
>> Call 1-800-USA-LEARN to receive suggestions for how to participate
>> in this national effort and procedures for linking to the President's
>> event;
>> Find a site with satellite downlink capability, such as a
>> university, a community college, a school district office, or a
>> community access television station;
>> Invite teachers, parents, school, business and community leaders to
>> participate;
>> Register your participation to receive free information on how to
>> facilitate discussions on community involvement in school
>> modernization and free materials describing the Administration's
>> education proposals;
>> Convene the group to watch the satellite broadcast on Tuesday,
>> September 8 at 2:15 p.m. ET. If possible, precede or follow the
>> teleconference with a local school tour, discussion, demonstration or
>> other activity.
>>
>> Participation in this program is free, but you must register by using
>> the accompanying form. For more information, contact us at:
>> 1-800-USA-LEARN
>> fax (202) 401-0689
>> usa_learn@ed.gov
>>
>>--
>>
>>To Subscribe
>> Send a message to -- majordomo@reeusda.gov
>> In the body, type -- subscribe exted
>>
>>To Unsubscribe
>> Send a message to -- majordomo@reeusda.gov
>> In the body, type -- unsubscribe exted
>>
>
Dr. Tom Trail
International Trails
2039 Mt. View Rd.
Moscow, Id. 83843
Tel: (208) 882-6077
Fax: (208) 882-0896
e mail ttrail@moscow.com
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From: "bill london" <bill_london@hotmail.com>
To: vision2020@moscow.com
Subject: Fwd: BOCC Proceedings for 8/17/98
Content-Type: text/plain
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 12:53:30 PDT
>From latahbc@moscow.com Tue Aug 25 14:47:31 1998
>Received: from brad (pppu039.moscow.com [199.245.242.39]) by
mail-gw.fsr.net (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA24080; Tue, 25 Aug 1998
14:49:44 -0700 (PDT)
>Message-ID:
<MAPI.Id.0016.00617461686263203234333630303030@MAPI.to.RFC822>
>Priority: Normal
>To: Bill London <bill_london@hotmail.com>,
> Carol in Planning & Building <latahpb@moscow.com>,
> Louise Barber <louiseb@moscow.com>,
> sally fredericks <dickfred@turbonet.com>,
> Tom Trail <ttrail@moscow.com>, "W." Robb Parish
<wrparish@moscow.com>
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>From: Board of Commissioners <latahbc@moscow.com>
>Subject: BOCC Proceedings for 8/17/98
>Date: Tue, 25 Aug 98 13:53:48 PDT
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; X-MAPIextension=".TXT"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>COMMISSIONERS' PROCEEDINGS
> Week of August 17, 1998
>
>Commissioners Harry DeWitt, Thomas L. Spangler and Loreca J.
>Stauber met in regular session. The following actions were taken:
>
>Signed and Filed Commissioners' Proceedings for the Week of August
>10, 1998.
>
>Approved, Signed and Filed request for cancellation of taxes on parcel
>number G 1350 012 010C, due to incorrect address.
>
>Approved, Signed and Filed request for cancellation of taxes on parcel
>number RP 42N 05W 06 2406, value for larger parcel was reduced by
>appeal to qualify for agriculture exemption.
>
>Approved, Signed and Filed request for cancellation of taxes on parcel
>number RPO 1842 001 003AA, approved agriculture exemption was
>signed in December 1997, but assessment was not changed.
>
>Approved, Signed and Filed request for cancellation of taxes on parcel
>number M 1030 007 0130, portion of home no longer rented,
>adjustment is to allow for full homeowners exemption.
>
>Approved, Signed and Filed request for one year only solid waste fee
>adjustment on parcel number RP 40N 03W 26 4806A, house or mobile
>home is non-livable.
>
>Approved, Signed and Filed request to hire Christoffer J. Eide,
>Miscellaneous Elections Clerk. Table of Organization Auditor's
>Department 01C, Line 03. Effective August 11, 1998.
>
>Approved, Signed and Filed request to hire Douglas Anderson, Patrol
>Deputy. Table of Organization Sheriff's Operations and Training
>Department 04B, Line 12. Effective September 14, 1998.
>
>Approved, Signed and Filed request to hire Brent R. King, Deputy
>Prosecuting Attorney I. Table of Organization Prosecuting Attorney
>Department 07, Line 04. Effective September 8, 1998.
>
>
>
>COMMISSIONERS' PROCEEDINGS
>Week of August 17, 1998
>Page 2
>
>
>
>Approved, Signed and Filed request to hire Tanya M. Burris, part-time
>regular Switchboard Operator. Table of Organization Board of County
>Commissioners Administration Department 05A, Line 05. Effective
>August 18, 1998.
>
>Approved, Signed and Filed request for tuition aid to North Idaho
>College by Michael Stephen Gates.
>
>Approved, Signed and Filed request for tuition aid to North Idaho
>College by Toby Brown.
>
>Approved, Signed and Filed request for tuition aid to North Idaho
>College by Jonathan Adam Gering.
>
>Filed Public Defender hours for Brian D. Thie for the month of July
>1998.
>
>Approved, Signed and Filed request to surplus property from Sheriff's
>Office. One 3M brand 500 Reader Printer model microfilm reader,
>county tag # 00313 of no value.
>
>Approved, Signed and Filed request to surplus property from Social
>Service's office. One maroon desk chair - no serial/tag numbers.
>
>Approved, Signed and Filed request for authorization to rent Canon
>NP6551 w/20 bin stapler-sorter from IKON Office Solutions of
>Lewiston. Commissioners Spangler and DeWitt approved,
>Commissioner Stauber did not vote.
>
>Motion and Order to authorize the Chair's signature on the Deep Creek
>Levee Mitigation Grant Project for a total of $19,000. Of that amount
>$14,250 is the Federal share and $4,750 is the State of Idaho's share.
>This will be administered by Latah County's Disaster Services.
>
>Filed Treasurer/Auditor Joint Quarterly Report - third quarter - April
1,
>1998 through June 30, 1998.
>
>Filed Statement of Treasurer's Cash as of June 30, 1998.
>
>Filed Remaining Cash Analysis as of June 30, 1998.
>
>Motion and Order to amend all job descriptions for Department Heads
>under the Board of County Commissioners to read "Reports to:
>Chairman of the Board of County Commissioners". Spangler and
>DeWitt vote yes, Stauber votes no.
>
>COMMISSIONERS' PROCEEDINGS
>Week of August 17, 1998
>Page 3
>
>
>
>Convened in Executive Session at 10:37 a.m. on August 17, 1998, to
>discuss records that are exempt from public inspection, indigent cases,
>pursuant to Idaho Code Sec. 67-2345 (1)(d); adjourned at 11:00 a.m.;
>four (4) cases approved and no cases denied.
>
>Motion and Order to reject the estimates from Perfection Weed and
>Pest Control and Steve's Custom Spraying and Fertilizing; based on
>confusion regarding public works contractor licensing. Chairman
>authorized to sign contract for A&K RR right-of-way spraying with
>lowest qualified applicator with a public works license.
>
>All documents are available for inspection in the office of the
>Clerk/Auditor/Recorder.
>
>Susan Petersen
>Clerk of the Board of Commissioners
>
>by: Sandra Crooks, Deputy
>Clerk of the Board of Commissioners
>
>APPROVED: , Chair
>
>
>ATTEST: , Deputy Clerk
>
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From: "bill london" <bill_london@hotmail.com>
To: vision2020@moscow.com
Subject: Fwd: BOCC AGENDA FOR 8/24/98
Content-Type: text/plain
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 12:54:06 PDT
>From latahbc@moscow.com Tue Aug 25 14:47:00 1998
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> Carol in Planning & Building <latahpb@moscow.com>,
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>Subject: BOCC AGENDA FOR 8/24/98
>Date: Fri, 21 Aug 98 14:55:53 PDT
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>BOARD OF LATAH COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
>FORMAL AGENDA AND SCHEDULE OF MEETINGS
>(Roll call for Executive Session pursuant to Idaho Code Section
>67-2345)
>
>MONDAY, AUGUST 24, 1998
> 8:30 a.m. Open as Board of County Commissioners
>
> 9:00 a.m. Formal Meeting in Room 2-B
> Approve/Deny for Signature and
>Filing:
> Request for cancellation of taxes on
>parcel number RPP 1520 0200 0060A, due to hardship.
> Request for solid waste fee
>adjustment on parcel number MH 39N 03W 32 6624, house or
>mobile home is non-liveable.
> Request to change designation of
>Deputy Prosecuting Attorney to Senior Deputy Prosecuting Attorney.
> Table of Organization Prosecuting Attorney Department 07 from Line
>03 to Line 02. No salary increase at this time. Effective September
>1, 1998.
> Request to change designation of
>Deputy Prosecuting Attorney. Table of Organization Prosecuting
>Attorney Department 07 from Line 04 to Line 03. Salary grade from
>A013 to A014, no salary increase at this time. Effective September
>1, 1998.
> Request to adjust salary for part-time
>switchboard operator. Table of Organization Board of Commissioners
>Administration Department 05A, line 05. Effective August 18, 1998.
> Letter of Agreement between Latah
>County Sheriff's Department and Gritman Medical Center for Home
>Health Nurse Services.
> Contract Modification for agreement
>entered into on June 25, 1997 by and between Latah County and
>Geographic Mapping Consultants, Inc.
> Independent Contractor Agreement
>between Latah County and Chrisstina Hamilton for services as liaison
>and coordinator for the Latah County Arts & Culture Committee.
> Notice of Claim to Latah County from
>Julius Beyer, Sr.
> Idaho Code 31-3201D - County
>Misdemeanor Probation Supervision Fee.
> Optional Forms of county Government
>Ballot proposed by County Clerk.
> Compensation Committee
>Recommendations. Youth Services Director, Weed Control
>Supervisor, Disaster Services/LEPC Coordinator and Social Services
>Director.
> Commissioners' Proceedings for week
>of August 17, 1998.
>
> 10:30 a.m. Sunset Memorial Taxation Discussion
>- Ernest Bunch and Mark Moorer
>
> 11:00 a.m. Planning Concerns of J.W.
>Construction - Mark Wilder and Gerard Billington
>
> 1:00 p.m. Planning Director Regular Meeting
>
> Other business=0CBOARD OF LATAH
>COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
>SCHEDULE OF MEETINGS
>(Roll call for Executive Session pursuant to Idaho Code Section
>67-2345)
>
>TUESDAY, AUGUST 25, 1998
>
> 9:00 a.m. Civil Counsel Regular Meeting
>
> 911 letter - Jeff Crouch and
>Steve Janzen
> Blue Lagoon Proposal - Ken
>Hungerford and John Kerr
>
> 10:00 a.m. Elected Officials Meeting
>
> 1:00 p.m. Sick Leave Bank Policy Discussion with
>Employee Advisory Committee Members
>
> Other Business
>
> 7:00 p.m. Pre-Review of Proposed FY'99 Budget
>
>
>WEDNESDAY, AUGUST 26, 1998
>
> 9:00 a.m. Indigent Cases, Executive Session
>
> 10:00 a.m. Zoning Board of Appeals - Appeal by
>Karen Monson
>
> 11:00 a.m 2nd Dwelling Request-John
>Campbell-Greg Abramson
>
> 11:15 a.m. 2nd Dwelling Renewal-Brent
>Bradberry-Greg Abramson
>
> Continuation of Agenda Items
>
> Other Business
>
>
>THURSDAY, AUGUST 27, 1998
>
> 10:00 a.m. Compensation Committee Meeting -
>Commissioner DeWitt
>
> 10:00 a.m. Region II Juvenile Detention Center
>Advisory Board Meeting, Lewiston - Commissioner Spangler
>
> 7:00 p.m. RC&D Meeting - Commissioner Stauber
>
>
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From: "bill london" <bill_london@hotmail.com>
To: vision2020@moscow.com
Subject: Fwd: A shared-use commercial kitchen for the Palouse
Content-Type: text/plain
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 11:14:55 PDT
One of the suggestions that came from the Community Retreat was a shared
commercial kitchen space--ethnic foods restraurant incubator.
Well, looks like it might actually happen. If you are interested,
please read following post...
BL
>From london@wsu.edu Fri Aug 28 10:52:23 1998
>Received: from brands.it.wsu.edu (xtsd0709.it.wsu.edu [134.121.3.129])
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> for <bill_london@hotmail.com>; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 10:33:27 -0700 (PDT)
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>Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 10:26:21 -0700
>To: bill_london@hotmail.com
>From: Bill London <london@wsu.edu>
>Subject: A shared-use commercial kitchen for the Palouse
>Mime-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>>Return-Path: <lamar@pcei.org>
>>Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 18:02:17 -0700
>>X-PH: V4.2@pegasus
>>To: pcei@pcei.org (PCEI Members)
>>From: Tom Lamar <lamar@pcei.org>
>>Subject: A shared-use commercial kitchen for the Palouse
>>
>>PCEI Member,
>>
>>The YWCA of WSU, and the Palouse-Clearwater Environmental Institute
are
>>sponsoring a panel discussion on the possibility of creating a
shared-use
>>commercial kitchen on the Palouse. This discussion will take place
>>Tuesday, September 1, in room 224 at the WSU CUB (Compton Union
Building)
>>from 7:00pm to 9:00pm. Margaret Viebrock of WSU Cooperative Extension
in
>>Douglas County, Debbie Toner of the Prosser Economic Development
>>Association, and Laurie Katana of the Bonner County Business Center
will
>>share their expertise and experience in developing and managing
shared-use
>>commercial kitchens. All who are interested in community economic
>>development or think they might benefit from a shared-use commercial
>>kitchen are encouraged to attend this free event. For more
information, or
>>if you plan to attend, please contact Peggy Adams at 882-1444 (PCEI,
>>Community Food System Program) or Liza Rognas at 335-6849 (YWCA of
WSU).
>>
>>Lots of people think about turning their favorite recipe into a
business.
>>For many the biggest obstacle is access to an approved commercial
kitchen.
>>Anyone who investigates health department regulations regarding
selling
>>home-made food finds that making food in your own kitchen for retail
sale
>>can get you in big trouble. Once aspiring entrepreneurs run up
against the
>>complex and expensive requirements for building commercial kitchen
>>facilities, they usually give up their dreams. Too often this leaves
>>consumers without access to the wonderful tastes of regional foods and
>>limits our choices to the homogenous, bland, national brands available
in
>>grocery chains.
>>
>>Not only do locally produced foods allow consumers a greater variety
of
>>products to choose from, but local products help keep our grocery
dollars
>>local. Most of each dollar we spend at the grocery store goes out of
the
>>area. In our small rural communities this can be a significant drain
on
>>local economies. When we purchase from our local, small-scale
growers,
>>bakers, jam makers and other food processors, we keep our money in
our
>>communities which helps those communities to stay alive and vital.
>>
>>Tom
>>
>>Thomas C. Lamar, Executive Director
>>
>>===================================================================
>>Palouse-Clearwater Environmental Institute
>>P O Box 8596; 112 West 4th St; Suite #1
>>Moscow ID 83843-1096
>>Phone (208)882-1444; Fax (208)882-8029
>>url: http://www.moscow.com/pcei
>>
>>Please Note our individual staff email addresses below:
>>
>>Thomas C. Lamar, Executive Director: lamar@pcei.org
>>Kathleen Lester, Office Manager: lester@pcei.org
>>Laurie Gardes, Financial Manager: gardes@turbonet.com
>>Adam R. Thornbrough, Watersheds: thornbrough@pcei.org
>>Colette DePhelps, Community Food Systems: dephelps@pcei.org
>>Jon Barrett, Idaho Smart Growth: smartgro@micron.net
>>Elaine Clegg, Idaho Smart Growth: eclegg@micron.net
>>Jennifer Bell, Environmental Education: bell1719@uidaho.edu
>>
>>Celebrating twelve years of connecting people, place and community.
>>===================================================================
>>
>>
>>
>
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
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To: vision2020@moscow.com
From: lkeenan@norby.latah.lib.id.us (Lori Keenan)
Subject: Re: Fwd: A shared-use commercial kitchen for the Palouse
Message-ID: <1E7864E729AB@norby.latah.lib.id.us>
What an excellent idea! I just knew that some of the ideas generated at the
Retreat would come to fruition - and if it's in the form of jam, so be it.
Lori Keenan
>One of the suggestions that came from the Community Retreat was a shared
>commercial kitchen space--ethnic foods restraurant incubator.
>
>Well, looks like it might actually happen. If you are interested,
>please read following post...
>
>BL
>
>>From london@wsu.edu Fri Aug 28 10:52:23 1998
>>Received: from brands.it.wsu.edu (xtsd0709.it.wsu.edu [134.121.3.129])
>> by cheetah.it.wsu.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA29709
>> for <bill_london@hotmail.com>; Fri, 28 Aug 1998 10:33:27 -0700 (PDT)
>>Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980828102621.00bd3de4@mail.wsu.edu>
>>X-Sender: london@mail.wsu.edu
>>X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32)
>>Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 10:26:21 -0700
>>To: bill_london@hotmail.com
>>From: Bill London <london@wsu.edu>
>>Subject: A shared-use commercial kitchen for the Palouse
>>Mime-Version: 1.0
>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>>>Return-Path: <lamar@pcei.org>
>>>Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 18:02:17 -0700
>>>X-PH: V4.2@pegasus
>>>To: pcei@pcei.org (PCEI Members)
>>>From: Tom Lamar <lamar@pcei.org>
>>>Subject: A shared-use commercial kitchen for the Palouse
>>>
>>>PCEI Member,
>>>
>>>The YWCA of WSU, and the Palouse-Clearwater Environmental Institute
>are
>>>sponsoring a panel discussion on the possibility of creating a
>shared-use
>>>commercial kitchen on the Palouse. This discussion will take place
>>>Tuesday, September 1, in room 224 at the WSU CUB (Compton Union
>Building)
>>>from 7:00pm to 9:00pm. Margaret Viebrock of WSU Cooperative Extension
>in
>>>Douglas County, Debbie Toner of the Prosser Economic Development
>>>Association, and Laurie Katana of the Bonner County Business Center
>will
>>>share their expertise and experience in developing and managing
>shared-use
>>>commercial kitchens. All who are interested in community economic
>>>development or think they might benefit from a shared-use commercial
>>>kitchen are encouraged to attend this free event. For more
>information, or
>>>if you plan to attend, please contact Peggy Adams at 882-1444 (PCEI,
>>>Community Food System Program) or Liza Rognas at 335-6849 (YWCA of
>WSU).
>>>
>>>Lots of people think about turning their favorite recipe into a
>business.
>>>For many the biggest obstacle is access to an approved commercial
>kitchen.
>>>Anyone who investigates health department regulations regarding
>selling
>>>home-made food finds that making food in your own kitchen for retail
>sale
>>>can get you in big trouble. Once aspiring entrepreneurs run up
>against the
>>>complex and expensive requirements for building commercial kitchen
>>>facilities, they usually give up their dreams. Too often this leaves
>>>consumers without access to the wonderful tastes of regional foods and
>>>limits our choices to the homogenous, bland, national brands available
>in
>>>grocery chains.
>>>
>>>Not only do locally produced foods allow consumers a greater variety
>of
>>>products to choose from, but local products help keep our grocery
>dollars
>>>local. Most of each dollar we spend at the grocery store goes out of
>the
>>>area. In our small rural communities this can be a significant drain
>on
>>>local economies. When we purchase from our local, small-scale
>growers,
>>>bakers, jam makers and other food processors, we keep our money in
>our
>>>communities which helps those communities to stay alive and vital.
>>>
>>>Tom
>>>
>>>Thomas C. Lamar, Executive Director
>>>
>>>===================================================================
>>>Palouse-Clearwater Environmental Institute
>>>P O Box 8596; 112 West 4th St; Suite #1
>>>Moscow ID 83843-1096
>>>Phone (208)882-1444; Fax (208)882-8029
>>>url: http://www.moscow.com/pcei
>>>
>>>Please Note our individual staff email addresses below:
>>>
>>>Thomas C. Lamar, Executive Director: lamar@pcei.org
>>>Kathleen Lester, Office Manager: lester@pcei.org
>>>Laurie Gardes, Financial Manager: gardes@turbonet.com
>>>Adam R. Thornbrough, Watersheds: thornbrough@pcei.org
>>>Colette DePhelps, Community Food Systems: dephelps@pcei.org
>>>Jon Barrett, Idaho Smart Growth: smartgro@micron.net
>>>Elaine Clegg, Idaho Smart Growth: eclegg@micron.net
>>>Jennifer Bell, Environmental Education: bell1719@uidaho.edu
>>>
>>>Celebrating twelve years of connecting people, place and community.
>>>===================================================================
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>______________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
>
Lori Keenan, Director
Latah County Library District
110 S. Jefferson Street
Moscow, ID 83843
tel: (208)882-3923
fax: (208) 882-5098
e-mail: lkeenan@norby.latah.lib.id.us
1597 100660 50 50 2411 6571625275 10100 0 ustar slist slist From owner-vision2020 Fri Aug 28 15:09:58 1998
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To: Larry Hodge <hodge@moscow.com>, Pam Palmer <ppalmer@moscow.com>,
Vision 2020 <vision2020@moscow.com>
From: Gib Myers <gmyers@moscow.com>
Subject: moscow public works/finance committee agenda
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CITY OF MOSCOW
PUBLIC WORKS/FINANCE COMMITTEE
Agenda
Monday
August 31, 1998 4:30 p.m.
City Hall Council Chambers, 206 East Third Street, Second Floor
***********************************************************************
1. Approval of Minutes of August 24, 1998
2. Public Lighting Ordinance 93-19 - Gary J. Riedner
3. Petitions for the City to Continue Maintenance of Paradise Creek, Tom
Cass -
Gary Presol
REPORTS:
FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS:
Scheduled:
Unscheduled:
Paradise Creek Overall Project - Gary Presol
Policy Regarding Sidewalk Repair/Maintenance - Roger Blanchard
Stormwater Maintenance Ordinance - Gary Presol
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Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 12:29:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: Briana LeClaire <mmsmom1@yahoo.com>
Subject: Fwd: Lies That Matter
To: vision2020@moscow.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
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note: forwarded msg attached.
Hi all --
Before everyone flips out because this is being posted by a red-hot little Republican, I'd like to point out it was originally published in the New Republic. Of course it isn't a local issue and therefore may not be entirely appropriate for this forum, but I thought it was exceptional and would like to hear what people on this list think of it.
One warning: it is very long. Enjoy! :-) Briana
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
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Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 15:36:07 -0700
To: raymondw@uidaho.edu, bri-tom@moscow.com,
mike_stinson@kempthorne.senate.gov
From: jennifer wallace <wall7455@uidaho.edu>
Subject: Lies That Matter
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I don't know who Andrew Sullivan is, but this is about as thorough a
dissection of the situation as I've seen.
Lies That Matter
By Andrew Sullivan
>>> The essence of Clinton's disgrace.
>>> There can be little doubt that if Bill Clinton were a prime minister
>>> in a parliamentary system he would no longer be in office. It is a
>>> convention in British politics, for example, that a minister can
>>> survive even the tawdriest of scandals, or direst of careers, but, if
>>> he clearly lies to the House of Commons, he has no option but to
>>> resign. A lie in this context is not merely a hedging of the truth, a
>>> ducking of a question, or an act of omission-because the Brits have
>>> long understood that these kinds of lies are sadly inextricable from
>>> much of political life. What a lie here means is an untruth spoken
>>> directly and knowingly in a formal capacity to the political nation.
>>> The reason for this convention is a simple one. If a politician is
>>> capable of self-consciously lying to his peers and electorate, then
>>> nothing he says from that point on can be reliably believed. Once that
>>> happens, politics becomes impossible because trust has been destroyed,
>>> both at home and abroad. Domestic politics is as threatened as
>>> national security. It doesn't matter what the lie is about. What
>>> matters is that it is premeditated and clearly proven. What matters is
>>> that the politician knows it is a lie when he says it, and operates
>>> not from a position of political engagement, but from political
>>> dishonesty.
>>> Bill Clinton has done this in two clear, formal contexts. He did it in
>>> the deposition in the Paula Jones case, under oath, an oath as solemn
>>> and as binding as his oath of office. He did it from the White House
>>> on a presidential podium, wagging his finger for emphasis. He did it
>>> to his Cabinet and directly urged others to lie on his behalf. And he
>>> lied again when he said he didn't lie or direct others into bald-faced
>>> deception.
>>> Of course, the United States does not have a parliamentary system, and
>>> so there is greater leeway for an American president. There is the
>>> leeway of apology, the leeway of forgiveness, and the leeway of
>>> impeachment. Having botched the first two, the president must soon
>>> engage the latter. The hearings will surely consume the nation in a
>>> marathon of distasteful distraction from which any honorable person
>>> would wish to rescue us. Bill Clinton is not such an honorable person,
>>> which is why it is unlikely he will quit. But that is not to say he
>>> shouldn't.
>>> The defenses of the president, weak from the beginning, weaker as
>>> every day passes, are on the verge of collapse. We are told that this
>>> is a lie about sex, and everyone lies about sex. Well, to begin with,
>>> not everyone. And not everyone's sex life is conducted in a business
>>> office with an employee scarcely out of college. Most lies about sex,
>>> after all, are lies about equal, consensual, private matters, not
>>> about public acts of exploitation. We have been instructed by
>>> third-wave feminists that, since the Lewinsky affair was obviously
>>> consensual, it was not exploitative. But is there any greater
>>> disproportion of power than that between an intern and the president
>>> of the United States?
>>> And, second, this argument misses what makes Bill Clinton different
>>> from most people. For the majority of us, white lies or discretion
>>> about sex are occasional digressions from general, everyday honesty.
>>> They are exceptions that prove the rule. But, with Clinton, the lies
>>> about sex are not exceptions to the general rule; they are the rule.
>>> They are of a seamless piece with his lies about virtually everything
>>> else.
>>> The Lewinsky saga, in this sense, is a distillation of everything we
>>> already knew about Clinton, the purest proof yet of the moral nihilism
>>> that drives him forward. From the beginning, Clinton has lied with
>>> indiscriminate abandon. He has lied about genocide and he has lied
>>> about his golf scores. Every label he has attached to himself, every
>>> public position he has taken, has smacked of opportunism, not
>>> conviction, self-interested deceit, not public-interested candor. Very
>>> little of it can be taken at face value. He claims to be a feminist
>>> and yet treats the women around him as fools, tokens, or sexual
>>> objects. He claimed to be a New Democrat and yet embarked first and
>>> foremost on instituting semi-socialized medicine. He claimed to be a
>>> social liberal, and yet he signed the Defense of Marriage Act and
>>> boasted about it on Christian talk radio. He claimed to be in favor of
>>> making abortion "safe, legal, and rare," and yet he vetoed a measure
>>> to outlaw the most violent of late-term procedures. He claimed he
>>> wanted to end welfare as we know it and to balance the budget, and yet
>>> he failed to do either until forced to on Republican terms. Like a
>>> Visa card, he is everywhere you want him to be, which is to say he is
>>> nowhere reliable, nowhere dependable, and nowhere in the slightest bit
>>> honest.
>>> And, more important, he has never taken responsibility for any of
>>> this. In Clinton's moral universe, the truth is whatever he can get
>>> away with, and a lie is always somebody else's fault. He therefore
>>> hardly struggles with the truth, because, where there is no
>>> responsibility, there can be no struggle. He can analogize the Bosnian
>>> conflict as another Holocaust, take a poll to see whether he should
>>> intervene, stand by while tens of thousands of civilians are murdered,
>>> and then take credit for world peace when he sends American soldiers
>>> to police the aggressor's gains. He can publicly weep for people with
>>> aids, and empathize with homosexuals, and then sign a bill that would
>>> have thrown every HIV-positive person out of the military and almost
>>> double the rate of gay discharges from the service. He can advocate
>>> women's rights, and then expose himself to a stranger, and molest a
>>> distraught staffer in the Oval Office. (Yes, I believe Paula Jones and
>>> Kathleen Willey.) And then he can go to gay fund-raisers, and NOW
>>> rallies, and Bosnia itself, and pretend he is still a crusader for
>>> morality, civil rights, and peace, all the while corrupting anyone who
>>> comes into contact with him along the way.
>>> The notion that this characterological concern should be separate from
>>> a consideration of whether Bill Clinton can "do the job" of president
>>> betrays a misunderstanding of democratic politics itself. It is not a
>>> business. The president is not, and can never be, a CEO because a
>>> democratic nation is not, and can never be, a company. The United
>>> States is not making a product or selling a commodity. It is an
>>> association of laws and customs, the maintenance of which is an
>>> exacting and delicate and always moral task. The first responsibility
>>> of the person presiding over such an enterprise is not to achieve
>>> growth of 2.5 percent but to ensure the legitimacy of the system
>>> itself. In this fundamental task, Clinton has clearly not only failed;
>>> he has deliberately broken his oath of office. Clinton's attitude
>>> toward the law has not been how he can best uphold it but how he can
>>> best evade it. His attitude toward democratic political discourse has
>>> been not how he can address the issues honestly but how he can best
>>> dissemble, obfuscate, and lie. At some point, such a person does not
>>> merely demean himself; he demeans and threatens the entire system of
>>> government he is elected to defend.
>>> Yes, we knew this before-and he was reelected anyway. But this
>>> reelection was based on a spurious gamble: that "results" matter more
>>> than political character, that a culture of deceit can be outweighed
>>> by an accumulation of prosperity. What we did not count on in 1996 was
>>> what making such a moral compromise would further do to the character
>>> of the man in question. What our moral insouciance did was ratchet up
>>> the scale even further, allowing Clinton to believe he could get away
>>> with virtually anything. Which is why, buoyed by the polls, he
>>> shamelessly hustled shifty businessmen through the White House in
>>> return for campaign dollars, blithely saw Webb Hubbell paid handsomely
>>> while staying silent in the Whitewater investigation, and cavalierly
>>> carried on an affair in his very office with a lovesick intern. These
>>> actions were the actions of a man who had come to believe he was
>>> beyond the moral measure of anyone else and beyond the capacity of
>>> anyone to catch him. So, when he was finally caught, it was little
>>> surprise that his response was not contrition but outrage. How dare we
>>> hold him accountable now, when we have let him off so many times
>>> before?
>>> And, yes, the Republican alternative is truly horrifying. But there
>>> comes a point at which the lesser-of-two-evils argument is a form of
>>> moral corruption itself. Just because bigots and fanatics on the far
>>> right loathe Clinton for the wrong reasons doesn't mean it is wrong to
>>> loathe Clinton for the right reasons. Just because the far right has
>>> brazenly co-opted the language of morality to cloak its own vicious
>>> prejudices doesn't mean that liberals and decent conservatives can't
>>> use a moral discourse to criticize Clinton himself. In fact, the
>>> president's own moral degeneracy, by which I mean not his sexual
>>> weaknesses but his preference for ends over means, and lies over
>>> truth, has fatally co-opted many of the people associated with him. It
>>> has largely destroyed the credibility of many American feminists, and
>>> it has made much of the gay establishment look cynical when it hasn't
>>> looked craven. And this pattern looks only set to continue, until much
>>> that is important in American politics-the defense of a secular civic
>>> culture, of women's equality, of a genuinely liberal racial politics,
>>> of homosexual dignity-will come to be tainted irretrievably with the
>>> shadow of Clinton's insincerity. How many elections will Clinton have
>>> thrown to the far right, I wonder, how many religious fanatics will he
>>> have lent credibility to, how many women will he have abused, and gay
>>> soldiers will he have fired, before liberals summon up the gumption to
>>> say "Enough"?
>>> My own bet is that we still don't know the half of it: The Starr
>>> report might contain information about intimidation of witnesses and
>>> encouragement of deceit that might make our hair curl. Yes, it's petty
>>> business. Sex is often a petty business. So is money-grubbing
>>> commerce, as Whitewater surely showed. But honesty is not a petty
>>> principle. Without at least a shred of honesty in the highest official
>>> in the land, no system of democratic government can withstand the
>>> cynicism and disengagement that will soon overwhelm it. If Clinton is
>>> proven to have lied in the most cynical and shameless fashion, and
>>> then allowed to get away with it, the damage he has already done to
>>> the polity will be close to indelible.
>>> Clinton is a cancer on the culture, a cancer of cynicism, narcissism,
>>> and deceit. At some point, not even the most stellar of economic and
>>> social records is worth the price of such a cancer metastasizing even
>>> further. He should go. And it is a measure of the damage he has
>>> already wrought that this should even be a question.
>>> (Copyright 1998, The New Republic)
Jennifer
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