Re: vision2020-digest Digest V02 #154

[michelle green <gre58@mail.wsu.edu>]

Thank-you Melynda Huskey. I couldn't agree more.
Michelle Green
Moscow
At 10:50 AM 06/13/2002 -0700, you wrote:
>vision2020-digest Digest				Volume 02 : Issue 154
>
>Today's Topics:
>  Gay killers/public sex                [ sean <o2design@wsu.edu> ]
>  Re: Gay killers/public sex            [ John Harrell
<johnbharrell@yahoo.co ]
>  Re: summer swimming                   [ Pam Palmer <ppalmer@moscow.com> ]
>  Band concert tonight at East City Pa  [ "Kenton Bird"
<kentonbird@hotmail.c ]
>  Re: Gay California teachers come out  [ DonaldH675@aol.com ]
>Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 23:41:20 -0700
>From: sean <o2design@wsu.edu>
>To: vision2020@moscow.com
>Subject: Gay killers/public sex
>Message-Id: <a05100303b92de69afc47@[134.121.92.198]>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>
>You post some interesting information, John.  Kudos for offering 
>substance in the form of references, etc., and for the shear time to 
>do so.
>
>Regarding your list of killers, D. Kim Rossmo's (excellent) book, 
>Geographic Profiling (CRC Press, 2000), suggests the top killers 
>are/were somewhat different than your own list.  He lists:
>
>Name:		Victims:
>Daniel Barboza	59
>Robert Diaz	60
>Joseph Fischer	100
>Donald Gaskins	100
>Donald Harvey	55
>Henry Lee Lucas	100
>Herman Mudgett	200*
>John Murrell	500
>
>*co-killer involved
>
>This is not to discredit the concept you suggest, just that the link 
>is not quite that clear, and does not have the evidence to support 
>it.  That said, I am not sure and Rossmo does not speak to the above 
>victims' gender.  Maybe the "gentlemen" you list were tops for deaths 
>of boys/men?
>
>Regarding the deviancy portrayed in use of public sites for sex, this 
>is a very interesting phenomenon that I've looked at in my research 
>on park crimes.  It appears that indecent exposure related to 
>homosexual males engaging in sex is one of the most persistent and 
>consistent offenses affecting U.S. urban parks.  Exactly why this is 
>has not been studied in much detail.  However, Humphreys' Tearoom 
>Trade offers a pretty thorough discussion of it.
>
>I am not sure that there is much relationships between a willingness 
>to engage in illegal and likely unwanted behavior in public settings 
>and a similar desire to share beliefs in public educational settings. 
>However, one key issue seems to be whether there exists a desire by 
>ANY members of the gay community to recruit.  If there is, then 
>sharing is no longer a passive information exchange, but rather a 
>proactive exercise to at least meet like-minded individuals (eg, to 
>assist them in feeling comfortable with outing).  I believe the issue 
>that you may be getting at is that some evidence exists that shows 
>SOME gay individuals do more than locate/comfort; they seek to 
>involve others by engaging them, either through encouragement, 
>coercion or force.
>
>Interesting topic.  I don't suppose it will go away.  Influencing the 
>next generation is just too importantŠno matter what your world view.
>
>s
>
>
>>Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 22:57:39 -0700 (PDT)
>>X-Authentication-Warning: whale2.fsr.net: slist set sender to 
>>vision2020-request@moscow.com using -f
>>Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 22:57:46 -0700 (PDT)
>>From: John Harrell <johnbharrell@yahoo.com>
>>Subject: Re: Gay California teachers 'come out' in classroom
>>To: Daniel Kronemann <kron4155@uidaho.edu>, P C <PhilCooper@webtv.net>
>>Cc: John Harrell <johnbharrell@yahoo.com>, vision2020@moscow.com
>>Resent-From: vision2020@moscow.com
>>X-Mailing-List: <vision2020@moscow.com> archive/latest/1721
>>X-Loop: vision2020@moscow.com
>>Resent-Sender: vision2020-request@moscow.com
>>X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/)
>>
>>Hello Daniel,
>>
>>Thank you for the discussion.
>>
>>"Well I have much to say about this one.  And I don't apologize for it."
>>
>>I guess me too, so here goes.
>>
>>Thank you for your response. I will try to respond to most of
>>your comments by also pulling from my bag of statistics and then
>>try to bring us back on track as to the original purpose of
>>these discussions which is school indoctrination, who decides
>>what our children should be indoctrinated with, who should be
>>paying for the indoctrination of our children - these last few
>>issues you have not really addressed.
>>
>>First, my bag of statistics will obviously be a different bag.
>>After seeing some of the facts from my bag of statistics, the
>>logical next step for you is to try to discredit the sources.
>>Well, guess what, I can do the same to your sources. So after
>>I present some of the facts from my bag of statistics maybe we
>>can stop the statistics games and get down to the real issues
>>as mentioned above.
>>
>>
>>Dr. Robert L. Spitzer, a psychiatric professor at Columbia
>>University, created a firestorm in May 2001, when he released
>>the results of his research at a meeting of the American
>>Psychiatric Association. Spitzer, who had spearheaded the
>>APA's decision in 1973 to declassify homosexuality as a
>>mental-health disorder, says his findings "show some people
>>can change from gay to straight, and we ought to acknowledge
>>that." This seems to be interesting regarding your comments
>>about the nature of homosexuality. Many homosexuals seem to
>>bounce from gay to straight and gay and straight many times,
>>it gets so confusing it doesn't surprise anyone that gays are
>>so confused. The most well-known of these is the actress
>>Anne Heche. There is no "gay gene". I could submit stat
>>after stat after stat on this issue, but I think just the
>>fact many homosexuals bounce around so much is enough for
>>the moment; so again, lets not play stat wars, they will
>>bore people to death.
>>
>>There are also two very good organizations that help people
>>with their issue of sexual confusion, and these organizations
>>have testimonies of people that have successfully confronted
>>and solved their sexual problems:
>>
>>Exodus International North America
>>P.O Box 540119
>>Orlando, Florida 32854
>>407-599-6872
>>407-599-0011 (fax)
>>888-264-0877 (toll free)
>>www.exodusnorthamerica.org
>>
>>National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality
>>(NARTH)
>>16633 Ventura Boulevard, Suite 1340
>>Encino, CA 91436
>>818-789-4440
>>www.narth.com
>>
>>
>>Why would anyone desire to have children become homosexuals,
>>or to get then thinking about the "gay" lifestyle? I am saying
>>this for the children. But here are the statistics on the
>>dangers of the "gay" lifestyle. So after reading this, if you,
>>or anyone really loved children or anyone else for that
>>matter, why would you want to promote them into such a horrid
>>state of mental health anguish, physical health anguish, and
>>violent anguish.
>>
>>Is the "Gay Behaviour Sick?" by Henry Makow Ph.D says,
>>[ http://toogoodreports.com/ ]
>>"Let¥s look at gay behavior as defined by two gays, Marshall
>>Kirk and Hunter Madsen Ph.D., authors of "After the Ball:
>>How America will Conquer its Fear and Hatred of Gays in the
>>90¥s (1989).
>>
>>      In Chapter Six, they outline ìten categories of
>>      misbehavior,î drawn from their own experiences, wide
>>      reading and thousands of hours of conversation with
>>      hundreds of other gays...
>>
>>      What follows are some highlights. As you read this, ask
>>      yourself if there is another human community, including
>>      the Mafia that could make these generalizations about
>>      itself. Ask yourself if we haven¥t caught this disease,
>>      or at least the sniffles.
>>
>>      - The authors say ìa surprisingly high percentageî of
>>        pathological liars and con men are gay. This results
>>        from a natural habit of self-concealment, and leads to
>>        a stubborn self-deception about one¥s own gayness and
>>        its implications.
>>
>>      - They say gays suffer from a ìnarcissisticî personality
>>        disorder and they give this clinical description:
>>           ìpathological self absorption, a need for constant
>>            attention and admiration, lack of empathy or concern
>>            for others, quickly bored, shallow, interested in
>>            fads, seductive, overemphasis on appearance,
>>            superficially charming, promiscuous, exploitative,
>>            preoccupied with remaining youthful, relationships
>>            alternate between over idealization and devaluation.î
>>
>>       - As an example of this narcissism, the authors say ìa
>>         very sizable proportion of gay menî who have been
>>         diagnosed HIV positive continue to have unprotected sex.
>>
>>       - They say the majority of gays are extremely promiscuous
>>         and self-indulgent. They must continuously up the ante
>>         to achieve arousal. This begins with alcohol and drugs
>>         and includes such ìforbiddenî aspects of sex as
>>         wallowing in filth (fetishism and coprophilia) and
>>         sadomasochism, which involves violence.
>>
>>       - They say many gays indulge in sex in public bathrooms
>>         and think it is antigay harassment when it is stopped.
>>         Many think they have a right to importune straight
>>         males, including children.
>>
>>       - Many gays are ìsingle minded sexual predatorsî fixated
>>         on youth and physical beauty alone. When it comes to
>>         the old or ugly, gays are ìthe real queerbashers.î
>>         Disillusioned themselves, they are cynical about love.
>>
>>       - ìRelationships between gay men don¥t usually last
>>         very long.î They quickly tire of their partners and
>>         fall victim to temptation. The ìcheating ratio of
>>         ëmarried¥ gay males, given enough time, approaches
>>         100%.î..."
>>
>>The physical health problems are just as severe.
>>[ http://www.familyresearchinst.org/FRI_EduPamphlet3.html ]
>>
>>The median age of death for homosexuals is virtually the same
>>nationwide--and, overall, less than 2% survived to old age.
>>If AIDS was the cause of death, the median age was 39. For the
>>829 gays who died of something other than AIDS, the median age
>>of death was 42, and 9% died old. The 163 lesbians had a median
>>age of death of 44, and 20% died old.
>>
>>Two and eight-tenths percent (2.8%) of gays died violently.
>>They were 116 times more apt to be murdered; 24 times more apt
>>to commit suicide; and had a traffic-accident death-rate 18
>>times the rate of comparably-aged white males. Heart attacks,
>>cancer and liver failure were exceptionally common. Twenty
>>percent of lesbians died of murder, suicide, or accident--a
>>rate 487 times higher than that of white females aged 25-44.
>>The age distribution of samples of homosexuals in the scientific
>>literature from 1989 to 1992 suggests a similarly shortened
>>life-span.
>>
>>The violence of homosexuals to homosexuals is staggering, I
>>wont give all those stats, but here is something interesting.
>>
>>The top six U.S. male serial killers were all gay:
>>[ http://www.familyresearchinst.org/FRI_EduPamphlet4.html ]
>>
>>    ï Donald Harvey claimed 37 victims in Kentucky;
>>
>>    ï John Wayne Gacy raped and killed 33 boys in Chicago,
>>      burying them under his house and in his yard;
>>
>>    ï Patrick Kearney accounted for 32, cutting his victims
>>      into small pieces after sex and leaving them in trash
>>      bags along the Los Angeles freeways;
>>
>>    ï Bruce Davis molested and killed 27 young men and boys in
>>      Illinois;
>>
>>    ï A gay sex-murder-torture ring (Corll-Henley-Brooks) sent
>>      27 Texas men and boys to their grave; and
>>
>>    ï Juan Corona was convicted of murdering 25 migrant workers
>>      (he "made love" with their corpses).
>>
>>
>>
>>With respect to the "gay" lifestyle and pedophilia, a new
>>position paper released by the Family Research Council in
>>Washington has combined results from many scholarly studies
>>and discovered a link between homosexuality and child
>>molestation.
>>
>>The paper, entitled "Homosexuality and Child Sexual Abuse,"
>>[ http://www.frc.org/get/is02e3.cfm ]
>>was compiled by Dr. Timothy Daily, a senior fellow for
>>Culture Studies at Family Research Council. Peter Sprigg,
>>senior director of Culture Studies, concludes there is a
>>definite link between homosexuality and child molestation.
>>He points out the vast majority of child molesters are male,
>>and one-third of the victims of molestation are young boys.
>>The evidence indicates that homosexual men molest boys at
>>rates grossly disproportionate to the rates at which
>>heterosexual men molest girls. A study of 457 male sex
>>offenders against children in Journal of Sex & Marital
>>Therapy found that "approximately one-third of these sexual
>>offenders directed their sexual activity against males."
>>
>>
>>
>>So, I say diversity, not perversity; and enough of the stat
>>wars.
>>
>>The idea of sodomy is what disgusts most people. It is
>>disgusting. And that is why I say not in front of my children
>>do you "come out." And I say this for the children. Now,
>>you might disagree with this, which brings us to the next
>>points in our discussion - indoctrination.
>>
>>You agreed that indoctrination is what is occuring in the
>>government schools. So who gets to determine what the
>>values are for the indoctrination? Is true diversity
>>allowed in the indoctrination? For example, can the
>>government schools teach that God says that sodomy is
>>wrong? What about real tolerance for parents that disagree
>>and dont want to have any part of the system or parts of
>>the system? Why should money be forcibly taken from me to
>>indoctrinate children into a value system that I disagree
>>with?
>>
>>With respect to my children they will eventually learn
>>about homosexuality - but not until they are emotionally,
>>mentally, sexually, physically, and spiritually mature
>>enough to handle it. And I get to determine that time,
>>not some teacher with an agenda.
>>
>>
>>Thank you for the discussion,
>>I am enjoying it,
>>Cheers!
>>
>>John Harrell
>>
>>
>>
>>__________________________________________________
>>Do You Yahoo!?
>>Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
>>http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
>
>
>-- 
>Thanks,
>s
>
>
>         * * * * * * * *
>         Sean Michael
>         .dwg
>Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 09:29:06 -0700 (PDT)
>From: John Harrell <johnbharrell@yahoo.com>
>To: sean <o2design@wsu.edu>, vision2020@moscow.com
>Subject: Re: Gay killers/public sex
>Message-ID: <20020613162906.53483.qmail@web13407.mail.yahoo.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>
>Hello Sean,
>
>> Regarding your list of killers, D. Kim Rossmo's (excellent) book, 
>> Geographic Profiling (CRC Press, 2000), suggests the top killers 
>> are/were somewhat different than your own list.  
>
>Well you know how statistics are, you can slice and dice (no pun
>intended) the numbers any way you want and label and classify to
>pretty much get the results a person is looking for.
>
>This is why I was hoping to get away from the stat wars and focus
>on the issues of indoctrination. At this point everyone seems to 
>agree that indoctrination is a product of the government school
>system. 
>
>
>To what standard should the values of indoctrination be evaluated? 
>
>Should I be force to pay for the indoctrination to standards I 
>find abhorrent?
>
>Is true diversity allowed in the indoctrination? For example, can 
>the government schools teach that God says that sodomy is wrong? 
>
>What about real tolerance for parents that disagree and dont want 
>to have any part of the system or parts of the system, why should
>they pay for that part of the indoctrination?
>
>
>Thank you for the discussion,
>Cheers!
>John Harrell
>
>
>
>--- sean <o2design@wsu.edu> wrote:
>> You post some interesting information, John.  Kudos for offering 
>> substance in the form of references, etc., and for the shear time to 
>> do so.
>> 
>> Regarding your list of killers, D. Kim Rossmo's (excellent) book, 
>> Geographic Profiling (CRC Press, 2000), suggests the top killers 
>> are/were somewhat different than your own list.  He lists:
>> 
>> Name:		Victims:
>> Daniel Barboza	59
>> Robert Diaz	60
>> Joseph Fischer	100
>> Donald Gaskins	100
>> Donald Harvey	55
>> Henry Lee Lucas	100
>> Herman Mudgett	200*
>> John Murrell	500
>> 
>> *co-killer involved
>> 
>> This is not to discredit the concept you suggest, just that the link 
>> is not quite that clear, and does not have the evidence to support 
>> it.  That said, I am not sure and Rossmo does not speak to the above 
>> victims' gender.  Maybe the "gentlemen" you list were tops for deaths 
>> of boys/men?
>> 
>> Regarding the deviancy portrayed in use of public sites for sex, this 
>> is a very interesting phenomenon that I've looked at in my research 
>> on park crimes.  It appears that indecent exposure related to 
>> homosexual males engaging in sex is one of the most persistent and 
>> consistent offenses affecting U.S. urban parks.  Exactly why this is 
>> has not been studied in much detail.  However, Humphreys' Tearoom 
>> Trade offers a pretty thorough discussion of it.
>> 
>> I am not sure that there is much relationships between a willingness 
>> to engage in illegal and likely unwanted behavior in public settings 
>> and a similar desire to share beliefs in public educational settings. 
>> However, one key issue seems to be whether there exists a desire by 
>> ANY members of the gay community to recruit.  If there is, then 
>> sharing is no longer a passive information exchange, but rather a 
>> proactive exercise to at least meet like-minded individuals (eg, to 
>> assist them in feeling comfortable with outing).  I believe the issue 
>> that you may be getting at is that some evidence exists that shows 
>> SOME gay individuals do more than locate/comfort; they seek to 
>> involve others by engaging them, either through encouragement, 
>> coercion or force.
>> 
>> Interesting topic.  I don't suppose it will go away.  Influencing the 
>> next generation is just too importantŠno matter what your world view.
>> 
>> s
>> 
>> 
>> >Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 22:57:39 -0700 (PDT)
>> >X-Authentication-Warning: whale2.fsr.net: slist set sender to 
>> >vision2020-request@moscow.com using -f
>> >Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 22:57:46 -0700 (PDT)
>> >From: John Harrell <johnbharrell@yahoo.com>
>> >Subject: Re: Gay California teachers 'come out' in classroom
>> >To: Daniel Kronemann <kron4155@uidaho.edu>, P C <PhilCooper@webtv.net>
>> >Cc: John Harrell <johnbharrell@yahoo.com>, vision2020@moscow.com
>> >Resent-From: vision2020@moscow.com
>> >X-Mailing-List: <vision2020@moscow.com> archive/latest/1721
>> >X-Loop: vision2020@moscow.com
>> >Resent-Sender: vision2020-request@moscow.com
>> >X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/)
>> >
>> >Hello Daniel,
>> >
>> >Thank you for the discussion.
>> >
>> >"Well I have much to say about this one.  And I don't apologize for it."
>> >
>> >I guess me too, so here goes.
>> >
>> >Thank you for your response. I will try to respond to most of
>> >your comments by also pulling from my bag of statistics and then
>> >try to bring us back on track as to the original purpose of
>> >these discussions which is school indoctrination, who decides
>> >what our children should be indoctrinated with, who should be
>> >paying for the indoctrination of our children - these last few
>> >issues you have not really addressed.
>> >
>> >First, my bag of statistics will obviously be a different bag.
>> >After seeing some of the facts from my bag of statistics, the
>> >logical next step for you is to try to discredit the sources.
>> >Well, guess what, I can do the same to your sources. So after
>> >I present some of the facts from my bag of statistics maybe we
>> >can stop the statistics games and get down to the real issues
>> >as mentioned above.
>> >
>> >
>> >Dr. Robert L. Spitzer, a psychiatric professor at Columbia
>> >University, created a firestorm in May 2001, when he released
>> >the results of his research at a meeting of the American
>> >Psychiatric Association. Spitzer, who had spearheaded the
>> >APA's decision in 1973 to declassify homosexuality as a
>> >mental-health disorder, says his findings "show some people
>> >can change from gay to straight, and we ought to acknowledge
>> >that." This seems to be interesting regarding your comments
>> >about the nature of homosexuality. Many homosexuals seem to
>> >bounce from gay to straight and gay and straight many times,
>> >it gets so confusing it doesn't surprise anyone that gays are
>> >so confused. The most well-known of these is the actress
>> >Anne Heche. There is no "gay gene". I could submit stat
>> >after stat after stat on this issue, but I think just the
>> >fact many homosexuals bounce around so much is enough for
>> >the moment; so again, lets not play stat wars, they will
>> >bore people to death.
>> >
>> >There are also two very good organizations that help people
>> >with their issue of sexual confusion, and these organizations
>> >have testimonies of people that have successfully confronted
>> >and solved their sexual problems:
>> >
>> >Exodus International North America
>> >P.O Box 540119
>> >Orlando, Florida 32854
>> >407-599-6872
>> >407-599-0011 (fax)
>> >888-264-0877 (toll free)
>> >www.exodusnorthamerica.org
>> >
>> >National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality
>> >(NARTH)
>> >16633 Ventura Boulevard, Suite 1340
>> >Encino, CA 91436
>> >818-789-4440
>> >www.narth.com
>> >
>> >
>> >Why would anyone desire to have children become homosexuals,
>> >or to get then thinking about the "gay" lifestyle? I am saying
>> >this for the children. But here are the statistics on the
>> >dangers of the "gay" lifestyle. So after reading this, if you,
>> >or anyone really loved children or anyone else for that
>> >matter, why would you want to promote them into such a horrid
>> >state of mental health anguish, physical health anguish, and
>> >violent anguish.
>> >
>> >Is the "Gay Behaviour Sick?" by Henry Makow Ph.D says,
>> >[ http://toogoodreports.com/ ]
>> >"Let¥s look at gay behavior as defined by two gays, Marshall
>> >Kirk and Hunter Madsen Ph.D., authors of "After the Ball:
>> >How America will Conquer its Fear and Hatred of Gays in the
>> >90¥s (1989).
>> >
>> >      In Chapter Six, they outline ìten categories of
>> >      misbehavior,î drawn from their own experiences, wide
>> >      reading and thousands of hours of conversation with
>> >      hundreds of other gays...
>> >
>> >      What follows are some highlights. As you read this, ask
>> >      yourself if there is another human community, including
>> >      the Mafia that could make these generalizations about
>> >      itself. Ask yourself if we haven¥t caught this disease,
>> >      or at least the sniffles.
>> >
>> >      - The authors say ìa surprisingly high percentageî of
>> >        pathological liars and con men are gay. This results
>> >        from a natural habit of self-concealment, and leads to
>> >        a stubborn self-deception about one¥s own gayness and
>> >        its implications.
>> >
>> >      - They say gays suffer from a ìnarcissisticî personality
>> >        disorder and they give this clinical description:
>> >           ìpathological self absorption, a need for constant
>> >            attention and admiration, lack of empathy or concern
>> >            for others, quickly bored, shallow, interested in
>> >            fads, seductive, overemphasis on appearance,
>> >            superficially charming, promiscuous, exploitative,
>> >            preoccupied with remaining youthful, relationships
>> >            alternate between over idealization and devaluation.î
>> >
>> >       - As an example of this narcissism, the authors say ìa
>> >         very sizable proportion of gay menî who have been
>> >         diagnosed HIV positive continue to have unprotected sex.
>> >
>> >       - They say the majority of gays are extremely promiscuous
>> >         and self-indulgent. They must continuously up the ante
>> >         to achieve arousal. This begins with alcohol and drugs
>> >         and includes such ìforbiddenî aspects of sex as
>> >         wallowing in filth (fetishism and coprophilia) and
>> >         sadomasochism, which involves violence.
>> >
>> >       - They say many gays indulge in sex in public bathrooms
>> >         and think it is antigay harassment when it is stopped.
>> >         Many think they have a right to importune straight
>> >         males, including children.
>> >
>> >       - Many gays are ìsingle minded sexual predatorsî fixated
>> >         on youth and physical beauty alone. When it comes to
>> >         the old or ugly, gays are ìthe real queerbashers.î
>> >         Disillusioned themselves, they are cynical about love.
>> >
>> >       - ìRelationships between gay men don¥t usually last
>> >         very long.î They quickly tire of their partners and
>> >         fall victim to temptation. The ìcheating ratio of
>> >         ëmarried¥ gay males, given enough time, approaches
>> >         100%.î..."
>> >
>> 
>=== message truncated ===
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
>http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
>Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 10:11:24 -0700
>From: Pam Palmer <ppalmer@moscow.com>
>To: <vision2020@moscow.com>
>Subject: Re: summer swimming
>Message-ID: <B92E204B.E17%ppalmer@moscow.com>
>Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>
>Lois-
>
>I'm glad you brought this up, and I hope that your posting of this issue
>will inspire people to contact the decision makers. With a pool the size of
>ours, there should be a place to swim laps anytime of day.
>
>When I was on City Council, at the time the plan for the pool was discussed,
>I pushed for 8 lanes in the rectangular pool, rather than 6, but the
>majority thought that was extravagant I guess.
>
>Hopefully, with enough comments from people who swim for health, the
>dedicated lap lanes will be back soon.
>
>Pam Palmer
>
>On 6/12/02 10:17 PM, "Lois Melina" <lmelina@moscow.com> wrote:
>
>> It's exciting to finally have warm enough weather for outdoor swimming, but
>> what a disappointment to discover that this year there is no lap swimming
>> in the outdoor pool after 1:30 p.m. And it's doubly disappointing that both
>> the outdoor and the indoor pools have lap swimming at the same time--the
>> lunch hour. So many people took advantage of the continuous lap lanes
>> throughout the day last summer (and often at the end of the work day)
>> without inhibiting the fun the kids were having using the diving board or
>> the inflatable runway.
>> 
>> Lois Melina
>> 
>Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 10:20:24 -0700
>From: "Kenton Bird" <kentonbird@hotmail.com>
>To: vision2020@moscow.com
>Subject: Band concert tonight at East City Park
>Message-ID: <F351yb9aw7EDeH2Glom00006386@hotmail.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>
>The Moscow Arts Commission band presents its second concert of the summer 
>season at East City Park, starting at 6:30 p.m.
>
>The band, directed by Gary Gemberling, is composed of nearly 40 musicians of 
>all ages from the Palouse region.  This evening's program will include 
>favorites from Broadway, Hollywood and TV programs, as well as classical 
>pieces, band arrangements of folk songs and of course, a march by John 
>Philip Sousa.
>
>Now that warm weather has finally arrived, bring a picnic supper to the park 
>and enjoy music under the trees.
>
>If you're a fair-weather musician (like me), consider joining the band.  At 
>this week's rehearsal, we had an abundance of flutes, trombones and yes, 
>even French horns.  But we were short of clarinets, saxophones, baritone 
>horns and tubas.  So if you're interested in dusting off your instrument, 
>please come to our next rehearsal on Tuesday at 7 p.m. in room 216 of the 
>University of Idaho School of Music.
>
>See you at the park!
>Kenton
>
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
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>Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 13:49:45 EDT
>From: DonaldH675@aol.com
>To: vision2020@moscow.com
>Subject: Re: Gay California teachers come out in the classroom
>Message-ID: <d8.190bb37d.2a3a3539@aol.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>
>John asks,
>>For example, can the government schools teach that God says that sodomy is 
>>wrong? 
>
>That's an easy one!  No, a public school can't teach that God says sodomy is
>wrong.  But it can teach that some religions hold that belief.  Likewise,
the 
>
>schools can't teach that people of African descent aren't actually human, 
>although the fact that some religions hold that belief (the World Church of 
>the Creator, for example, and other so-called Christian Identity groups) can 
>be discussed.
>
>Every religion -- and by religion I mean specifically "belief in and 
>reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and
governor 
>of the universe, and systems grounded in such belief and worship" (American 
>College Dictionary) -- makes a truth claim.  Publically funded schools
cannot 
>mediate those competing truth claims.
>
>Refraining from endorsing one particular religious view does not amount to 
>espousing another or competing religious view -- hence the impossibility of 
>satisfying Doug Wilson's wish for an account of "what this worldview is from 
>the defenders of it, or the enforcers of it."  We have many standards, many 
>theologies, many philosophies, and many worldviews.  It's not a simple
binary 
>at all but an extraordinarily complex mixture of contingencies,
compromises,  
>dissatisfactions, and agreements.  At the risk of repeating myself and
boring 
>others, I can only reiterate that we all pay for public education because we 
>have established, as a nation, a public interest in universal education 
>available to all, which we fund through taxes.  That principle may not
always 
>hold: democratic action changes laws all the time.  Knock yourself out.  
>
>Melynda Huskey
>