Gay killers/public sex

[sean <o2design@wsu.edu>]

You post some interesting information, John.  Kudos for offering 
substance in the form of references, etc., and for the shear time to 
do so.

Regarding your list of killers, D. Kim Rossmo's (excellent) book, 
Geographic Profiling (CRC Press, 2000), suggests the top killers 
are/were somewhat different than your own list.  He lists:

Name:		Victims:
Daniel Barboza	59
Robert Diaz	60
Joseph Fischer	100
Donald Gaskins	100
Donald Harvey	55
Henry Lee Lucas	100
Herman Mudgett	200*
John Murrell	500

*co-killer involved

This is not to discredit the concept you suggest, just that the link 
is not quite that clear, and does not have the evidence to support 
it.  That said, I am not sure and Rossmo does not speak to the above 
victims' gender.  Maybe the "gentlemen" you list were tops for deaths 
of boys/men?

Regarding the deviancy portrayed in use of public sites for sex, this 
is a very interesting phenomenon that I've looked at in my research 
on park crimes.  It appears that indecent exposure related to 
homosexual males engaging in sex is one of the most persistent and 
consistent offenses affecting U.S. urban parks.  Exactly why this is 
has not been studied in much detail.  However, Humphreys' Tearoom 
Trade offers a pretty thorough discussion of it.

I am not sure that there is much relationships between a willingness 
to engage in illegal and likely unwanted behavior in public settings 
and a similar desire to share beliefs in public educational settings. 
However, one key issue seems to be whether there exists a desire by 
ANY members of the gay community to recruit.  If there is, then 
sharing is no longer a passive information exchange, but rather a 
proactive exercise to at least meet like-minded individuals (eg, to 
assist them in feeling comfortable with outing).  I believe the issue 
that you may be getting at is that some evidence exists that shows 
SOME gay individuals do more than locate/comfort; they seek to 
involve others by engaging them, either through encouragement, 
coercion or force.

Interesting topic.  I don't suppose it will go away.  Influencing the 
next generation is just too importantŠno matter what your world view.

s


>Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 22:57:39 -0700 (PDT)
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>Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 22:57:46 -0700 (PDT)
>From: John Harrell <johnbharrell@yahoo.com>
>Subject: Re: Gay California teachers 'come out' in classroom
>To: Daniel Kronemann <kron4155@uidaho.edu>, P C <PhilCooper@webtv.net>
>Cc: John Harrell <johnbharrell@yahoo.com>, vision2020@moscow.com
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>Hello Daniel,
>
>Thank you for the discussion.
>
>"Well I have much to say about this one.  And I don't apologize for it."
>
>I guess me too, so here goes.
>
>Thank you for your response. I will try to respond to most of
>your comments by also pulling from my bag of statistics and then
>try to bring us back on track as to the original purpose of
>these discussions which is school indoctrination, who decides
>what our children should be indoctrinated with, who should be
>paying for the indoctrination of our children - these last few
>issues you have not really addressed.
>
>First, my bag of statistics will obviously be a different bag.
>After seeing some of the facts from my bag of statistics, the
>logical next step for you is to try to discredit the sources.
>Well, guess what, I can do the same to your sources. So after
>I present some of the facts from my bag of statistics maybe we
>can stop the statistics games and get down to the real issues
>as mentioned above.
>
>
>Dr. Robert L. Spitzer, a psychiatric professor at Columbia
>University, created a firestorm in May 2001, when he released
>the results of his research at a meeting of the American
>Psychiatric Association. Spitzer, who had spearheaded the
>APA's decision in 1973 to declassify homosexuality as a
>mental-health disorder, says his findings "show some people
>can change from gay to straight, and we ought to acknowledge
>that." This seems to be interesting regarding your comments
>about the nature of homosexuality. Many homosexuals seem to
>bounce from gay to straight and gay and straight many times,
>it gets so confusing it doesn't surprise anyone that gays are
>so confused. The most well-known of these is the actress
>Anne Heche. There is no "gay gene". I could submit stat
>after stat after stat on this issue, but I think just the
>fact many homosexuals bounce around so much is enough for
>the moment; so again, lets not play stat wars, they will
>bore people to death.
>
>There are also two very good organizations that help people
>with their issue of sexual confusion, and these organizations
>have testimonies of people that have successfully confronted
>and solved their sexual problems:
>
>Exodus International North America
>P.O Box 540119
>Orlando, Florida 32854
>407-599-6872
>407-599-0011 (fax)
>888-264-0877 (toll free)
>www.exodusnorthamerica.org
>
>National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality
>(NARTH)
>16633 Ventura Boulevard, Suite 1340
>Encino, CA 91436
>818-789-4440
>www.narth.com
>
>
>Why would anyone desire to have children become homosexuals,
>or to get then thinking about the "gay" lifestyle? I am saying
>this for the children. But here are the statistics on the
>dangers of the "gay" lifestyle. So after reading this, if you,
>or anyone really loved children or anyone else for that
>matter, why would you want to promote them into such a horrid
>state of mental health anguish, physical health anguish, and
>violent anguish.
>
>Is the "Gay Behaviour Sick?" by Henry Makow Ph.D says,
>[ http://toogoodreports.com/ ]
>"Let¥s look at gay behavior as defined by two gays, Marshall
>Kirk and Hunter Madsen Ph.D., authors of "After the Ball:
>How America will Conquer its Fear and Hatred of Gays in the
>90¥s (1989).
>
>      In Chapter Six, they outline ìten categories of
>      misbehavior,î drawn from their own experiences, wide
>      reading and thousands of hours of conversation with
>      hundreds of other gays...
>
>      What follows are some highlights. As you read this, ask
>      yourself if there is another human community, including
>      the Mafia that could make these generalizations about
>      itself. Ask yourself if we haven¥t caught this disease,
>      or at least the sniffles.
>
>      - The authors say ìa surprisingly high percentageî of
>        pathological liars and con men are gay. This results
>        from a natural habit of self-concealment, and leads to
>        a stubborn self-deception about one¥s own gayness and
>        its implications.
>
>      - They say gays suffer from a ìnarcissisticî personality
>        disorder and they give this clinical description:
>           ìpathological self absorption, a need for constant
>            attention and admiration, lack of empathy or concern
>            for others, quickly bored, shallow, interested in
>            fads, seductive, overemphasis on appearance,
>            superficially charming, promiscuous, exploitative,
>            preoccupied with remaining youthful, relationships
>            alternate between over idealization and devaluation.î
>
>       - As an example of this narcissism, the authors say ìa
>         very sizable proportion of gay menî who have been
>         diagnosed HIV positive continue to have unprotected sex.
>
>       - They say the majority of gays are extremely promiscuous
>         and self-indulgent. They must continuously up the ante
>         to achieve arousal. This begins with alcohol and drugs
>         and includes such ìforbiddenî aspects of sex as
>         wallowing in filth (fetishism and coprophilia) and
>         sadomasochism, which involves violence.
>
>       - They say many gays indulge in sex in public bathrooms
>         and think it is antigay harassment when it is stopped.
>         Many think they have a right to importune straight
>         males, including children.
>
>       - Many gays are ìsingle minded sexual predatorsî fixated
>         on youth and physical beauty alone. When it comes to
>         the old or ugly, gays are ìthe real queerbashers.î
>         Disillusioned themselves, they are cynical about love.
>
>       - ìRelationships between gay men don¥t usually last
>         very long.î They quickly tire of their partners and
>         fall victim to temptation. The ìcheating ratio of
>         ëmarried¥ gay males, given enough time, approaches
>         100%.î..."
>
>The physical health problems are just as severe.
>[ http://www.familyresearchinst.org/FRI_EduPamphlet3.html ]
>
>The median age of death for homosexuals is virtually the same
>nationwide--and, overall, less than 2% survived to old age.
>If AIDS was the cause of death, the median age was 39. For the
>829 gays who died of something other than AIDS, the median age
>of death was 42, and 9% died old. The 163 lesbians had a median
>age of death of 44, and 20% died old.
>
>Two and eight-tenths percent (2.8%) of gays died violently.
>They were 116 times more apt to be murdered; 24 times more apt
>to commit suicide; and had a traffic-accident death-rate 18
>times the rate of comparably-aged white males. Heart attacks,
>cancer and liver failure were exceptionally common. Twenty
>percent of lesbians died of murder, suicide, or accident--a
>rate 487 times higher than that of white females aged 25-44.
>The age distribution of samples of homosexuals in the scientific
>literature from 1989 to 1992 suggests a similarly shortened
>life-span.
>
>The violence of homosexuals to homosexuals is staggering, I
>wont give all those stats, but here is something interesting.
>
>The top six U.S. male serial killers were all gay:
>[ http://www.familyresearchinst.org/FRI_EduPamphlet4.html ]
>
>    ï Donald Harvey claimed 37 victims in Kentucky;
>
>    ï John Wayne Gacy raped and killed 33 boys in Chicago,
>      burying them under his house and in his yard;
>
>    ï Patrick Kearney accounted for 32, cutting his victims
>      into small pieces after sex and leaving them in trash
>      bags along the Los Angeles freeways;
>
>    ï Bruce Davis molested and killed 27 young men and boys in
>      Illinois;
>
>    ï A gay sex-murder-torture ring (Corll-Henley-Brooks) sent
>      27 Texas men and boys to their grave; and
>
>    ï Juan Corona was convicted of murdering 25 migrant workers
>      (he "made love" with their corpses).
>
>
>
>With respect to the "gay" lifestyle and pedophilia, a new
>position paper released by the Family Research Council in
>Washington has combined results from many scholarly studies
>and discovered a link between homosexuality and child
>molestation.
>
>The paper, entitled "Homosexuality and Child Sexual Abuse,"
>[ http://www.frc.org/get/is02e3.cfm ]
>was compiled by Dr. Timothy Daily, a senior fellow for
>Culture Studies at Family Research Council. Peter Sprigg,
>senior director of Culture Studies, concludes there is a
>definite link between homosexuality and child molestation.
>He points out the vast majority of child molesters are male,
>and one-third of the victims of molestation are young boys.
>The evidence indicates that homosexual men molest boys at
>rates grossly disproportionate to the rates at which
>heterosexual men molest girls. A study of 457 male sex
>offenders against children in Journal of Sex & Marital
>Therapy found that "approximately one-third of these sexual
>offenders directed their sexual activity against males."
>
>
>
>So, I say diversity, not perversity; and enough of the stat
>wars.
>
>The idea of sodomy is what disgusts most people. It is
>disgusting. And that is why I say not in front of my children
>do you "come out." And I say this for the children. Now,
>you might disagree with this, which brings us to the next
>points in our discussion - indoctrination.
>
>You agreed that indoctrination is what is occuring in the
>government schools. So who gets to determine what the
>values are for the indoctrination? Is true diversity
>allowed in the indoctrination? For example, can the
>government schools teach that God says that sodomy is
>wrong? What about real tolerance for parents that disagree
>and dont want to have any part of the system or parts of
>the system? Why should money be forcibly taken from me to
>indoctrinate children into a value system that I disagree
>with?
>
>With respect to my children they will eventually learn
>about homosexuality - but not until they are emotionally,
>mentally, sexually, physically, and spiritually mature
>enough to handle it. And I get to determine that time,
>not some teacher with an agenda.
>
>
>Thank you for the discussion,
>I am enjoying it,
>Cheers!
>
>John Harrell
>
>
>
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-- 
Thanks,
s


         * * * * * * * *
         Sean Michael
         .dwg