vision2020
Re: Democracy or Republic
Sorry, but I just do not think that a bunch of stuffy rich old white guys 200
years ago had a direct pipeline to Truth.
The "Founding Fathers" lived in a time, and were members of a privileged
aristocracy, that feared democracy and the uneducated poor. They also believed
in slavery and thought of women as property. Neither women nor slaves, nor the
poor for that matter, could vote in those elections.
The "Founding Fathers" were also smart enough to create a document that was
alive in the sense that it could grow, expand, and even remake itself. That is
the beauty of their system.
Now it's time to honor that system by bringing it fully into the 21st century.
The electoral college is a stupid remnant that favors the residents of small
states (and thus the more conservative voter). To those who place the
electoral college on such a pedestal, I actually think principal is much less
important here as the hope of winning future elections.
BL
Douglas Whitney wrote:
> Sorry for the late entry on this topic. The fact that the United States is a
> Republic, and the meaning of that fact is all to often forgotten in the
> political dialogue. The United States is a social compact between 50 member
> states, not between 200 million citizens. The vote of an individual is
> important only in the election of the representatives of each state to
> congress. The founders believed that the vote of an individual should not be
> important in electing the president of the republic-that is a matter for a
> state, which, as an corporate entity composed as a number of individuals, is
> the right entity to elect the president throught the electoral college. This
> balance against the tyranny of a popular majority is a fundamental
> characteristic of our national system, and to eliminate the electoral
> college would soon result in a country which would be unrecognizable to any
> of us. History teaches, and our founders understood, that the principals of
> pure democracy work only at a a neighborhood level, but when applied beyond
> that, result in anarchy. The idea was beautifully expressed in the musical
> "1776," in which the votes for independance were proudly cast as
> follows;"Virginia votes yes; Pennsylvania votes yes," and so forth. Looking
> at the presidential election in that context, together with the fact that
> Bush won 78% of the counties covering 80.7% of the land) and 58% of the
> states, brings a new perspective on the essential nature of the electoral
> college.
>
> Doug Whitney
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "William K. Medlin" <dev-plan@moscow.com>
> To: "John Cavalieri" <jcaval@uidaho.edu>
> Cc: "Moscow" <vision2020@moscow.com>
> Sent: Friday, December 15, 2000 10:12 AM
> Subject: RE: Democracy or Republic
>
> > You'll find it in Jefferson's papers, Hamilton's Federalist, and it's
> > implied in the general construction of federal government. It's also
> > reflected, in keeping with social philosophy of that time, in the
> > denial of voting in certain states to Catholics, Jews and members of
> > other sects. to non-property owners, to women and, of course to
> > slaves (counted as 3/5 persons to give the southern states more
> > representation). If these provisions do not reflect a fear of the
> > general population, whose disenfranchised people out-numbered the
> > franchised by about 4 to 1, I don't know what you would define as
> > fear of the popular will. Even since l920 and the voting rights act
> > of l965, there are still many, many subtle ways in which some
> > partisan politicians seek to prevent certain categories of citizens
> > from going to the polls: outright intimidation, "running out of
> > ballots", closing polls early, blockading access to polling places,
> > refusals to assist minorities, elderly, infirm, etc to cast correct
> > ballots, using worn out voting machines, confusing ballots, and still
> > other devices. All of these things have been documented and, in the
> > FL case, some of them no doubt will lead to legal cases filed against
> > the FL government. We'll have to see. WKM
> >
> > >"founding fathers did not trust the public to make the right decisions"
> > >
> > >That is a pretty bold statment. I don't remember leaning that in
> > >U.S. History.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > John Cavalieri
> > > jcaval@uidaho.edu
> > >
> > >_
> > > >
> >
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