vision2020
RE: Democracy or Republic
Dear Mr. Whitney and friends,
I agree with your assessment of the historical perspective. I do, however,
respectfully disagree with your prediction of what would happen if the
Electoral College were to be eliminated. The founding fathers knew that
democracy only worked in small city-states and not large areas but that was
before the communication age. We now get most news as it happens or very
shortly after. It takes very little effort for us to learn about issues and
to communicate them with others (example: V2020). The information
infrastructure has effectively made geographical distances an irrelevant
issue. We have friends involved in V2020 who do not live around here any
more. It does not affect their ability to communicate with us at all. I
could be in China right now and it would make absolutely no difference.
As for your assertion that Republicans carry most small states, if you look
at "normal" elections you will see that most of the presidents end up wining
with the popular and the Electoral College votes. This shows that in fact,
the elimination of the College will not effect most elections but it does
enforce the right of every tax paying citizen his or her right to vote and
that vote to count. Otherwise, we have taxation without representation. In
Idaho... I am being taxed without representation. That is a fact. It is also
unconstitutional.
The Electoral College was a compromise; that is all. We should stop treating
it as Gods word! I am not trying to belittle the founding fathers of our
great country. They created this country by boldly changing the rules to
benefit humanity. They were lucid enough to see the problems of their time
and to change the structure to address those problems. Their solutions were
not designed to be eternal. Times change, technology eliminates old problems
and creates new challenges. A nation that stays static in its judicial and
political structure WILL fall. We need to learn from the founding fathers
and be problem solvers instead of sheep. As great as the founders were, they
were not deity! We treat them like gods in this country. They were great men
who joined to create a better country. I would say they have succeeded. If
we do not follow their example, however, and not strive to improve our
system and address today's problems and be willing to change with the
times... we have failed them and our children.
Your brother in arms,
Shahab...
-----Original Message-----
From: Douglas Whitney [mailto:dwhitney@moscow.com]
Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2000 9:13 AM
To: John Cavalieri; William K. Medlin
Cc: Moscow
Subject: Re: Democracy or Republic
Sorry for the late entry on this topic. The fact that the United States is a
Republic, and the meaning of that fact is all to often forgotten in the
political dialogue. The United States is a social compact between 50 member
states, not between 200 million citizens. The vote of an individual is
important only in the election of the representatives of each state to
congress. The founders believed that the vote of an individual should not be
important in electing the president of the republic-that is a matter for a
state, which, as an corporate entity composed as a number of individuals, is
the right entity to elect the president throught the electoral college. This
balance against the tyranny of a popular majority is a fundamental
characteristic of our national system, and to eliminate the electoral
college would soon result in a country which would be unrecognizable to any
of us. History teaches, and our founders understood, that the principals of
pure democracy work only at a a neighborhood level, but when applied beyond
that, result in anarchy. The idea was beautifully expressed in the musical
"1776," in which the votes for independance were proudly cast as
follows;"Virginia votes yes; Pennsylvania votes yes," and so forth. Looking
at the presidential election in that context, together with the fact that
Bush won 78% of the counties covering 80.7% of the land) and 58% of the
states, brings a new perspective on the essential nature of the electoral
college.
Doug Whitney
----- Original Message -----
From: "William K. Medlin" <dev-plan@moscow.com>
To: "John Cavalieri" <jcaval@uidaho.edu>
Cc: "Moscow" <vision2020@moscow.com>
Sent: Friday, December 15, 2000 10:12 AM
Subject: RE: Democracy or Republic
> You'll find it in Jefferson's papers, Hamilton's Federalist, and it's
> implied in the general construction of federal government. It's also
> reflected, in keeping with social philosophy of that time, in the
> denial of voting in certain states to Catholics, Jews and members of
> other sects. to non-property owners, to women and, of course to
> slaves (counted as 3/5 persons to give the southern states more
> representation). If these provisions do not reflect a fear of the
> general population, whose disenfranchised people out-numbered the
> franchised by about 4 to 1, I don't know what you would define as
> fear of the popular will. Even since l920 and the voting rights act
> of l965, there are still many, many subtle ways in which some
> partisan politicians seek to prevent certain categories of citizens
> from going to the polls: outright intimidation, "running out of
> ballots", closing polls early, blockading access to polling places,
> refusals to assist minorities, elderly, infirm, etc to cast correct
> ballots, using worn out voting machines, confusing ballots, and still
> other devices. All of these things have been documented and, in the
> FL case, some of them no doubt will lead to legal cases filed against
> the FL government. We'll have to see. WKM
>
> >"founding fathers did not trust the public to make the right decisions"
> >
> >That is a pretty bold statment. I don't remember leaning that in
> >U.S. History.
> >
> >
> >
> > John Cavalieri
> > jcaval@uidaho.edu
> >
> >_
> > >
>
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