vision2020
RE: Compassion
John Harrell:
The misunderstandings between David Douglas and I, and between you and I,
will not be completely resolved by any amount of qualification or
clarification. As I stated to David Douglas, let's agree to disagree, but
respect the others point of view. I know this is an idealistic notion that
will be abandoned in the heat of battle, whether the battle is one of words
and ideology in action in the social/political sphere, or a battle in actual
violent warfare.
I know of many beautiful women who go totally naked in front of children,
and I am glad they do, for they are teaching children that there is notion
wrong or immoral with the human body, especially the female body, which
after is the source of all humanity. If I was present when you called ANY
women a "slut," I can assure you you would get a response commensurate with
my disgust at your anti-life neurotic misogynist nonsense.
Let's just agree to disagree, but keep your simple minded insults against
women to yourself, any women anywhere under any circumstances. Do you
realize that your attitude is the real obscenity here, not the simple
presence of a female human body on a city street?
I have it straight. Now do you?
Ted
>From: "Sunil Ramalingam" <sunilramalingam@hotmail.com>
>To: johnbharrell@yahoo.com, ted_moffett@hotmail.com, ddouglas@pacsim.com
>CC: vision2020@moscow.com
>Subject: RE: Compassion
>Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 10:08:28 -0700
>
>John,
>
>If a woman is cited or arrested for wearing clothes that reveal too much
>cleavage under the ordinance, will you describe her with the same word you
>used for the carwashers?
>
>Sunil
>
>
>>From: John Harrell <johnbharrell@yahoo.com>
>>To: Ted Moffett <ted_moffett@hotmail.com>, ddouglas@pacsim.com
>>CC: vision2020@moscow.com
>>Subject: RE: Compassion
>>Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 23:02:27 -0700 (PDT)
>>
>>Wait a minute Mr. Ted Moffett,
>>
>>I did not express a rude and insulting attitude towards "women", as in
>>all the females.
>>
>>I was reflecting on the character regarding the behaviour of some women
>>that feel it is necessary to expose themselves in front of all the
>>children in a downtown area.
>>
>>Please try to keep it straight. Or another misunderstanding could occur
>>as similar to what we have all been witnessing between you and David
>>Douglas.
>>
>>Cheers!
>>John Harrell
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>--- Ted Moffett <ted_moffett@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > David:
>> >
>> > I am glad you do not agree with the rude and insulting attitude
>>expressed by
>> > John Harrell towards women.
>> >
>> > The ethical issues you raise are important and complicated. We could
>> > discuss them for years and not completely resolve the factual and
>>logical
>> > difficulties involved which are of the highest order. If you are
>>really
>> > interested in studying a non-religiously based ethical system, read
>> > Principia Ethica by G. E Moore.
>> >
>> > I suspect you will try to argue that only your theistic ethical system
>>can
>> > be correct, while my agnostic or atheist system has no compass by which
>>to
>> > judge ethical direction. Why don't we just agree to disagree? But
>>allow me
>> > the dignity as a human being of having my opinion on ethical matters.
>>I do
>> > not completely deny you the validity of many of your ethical beliefs, I
>>am
>> > sure. So why must you insist, as it seems you are, that I have no
>>basis for
>> > making any ethical judgments? Here I sense the arrogance of the
>> > fundamentalist who must be right and all other views that challenge
>>must be
>> > wrong! Excuse me if I misjudge you.
>> >
>> > As far as my statement about accepting the validity of and sacredness
>>of the
>> > many valuable cultural and religious traditions of the human race, this
>>is
>> > just what I mean, though not in the extreme way that you might be
>> > interpreting this statement. To answer two questions at once, for
>>example,
>> > I accept that Doug Wilson can be right about many ethical issues based
>>on
>> > his faith. I admire many of the ethical teachings of Christ, so I
>>accept
>> > the validity of and sacredness of this tradition, but I do not swallow
>>it
>> > whole without a critical and skeptical analysis of what faults there
>>may be
>> > in Christianity. I could go on and on listing numerous spiritual
>>traditions
>> > and what validity they have, but why labor the point?
>> >
>> > Perhaps I can suggest, if I may, a way out of the apparent intractable
>> > quandary of the insane religious wars that plague the human race.
>> > When defining what is meant by "sacred" we will wade into very deep
>>waters
>> > very quickly that often do not lend themselves to precise logical
>> > clarification. Some spiritual traditions, Buddhism among them, make it
>>very
>> > clear that the true experience of the sacred is beyond definitions and
>> > words. If you are talking about the sacred this event is NOT SACRED.
>>As
>> > far as my appreciation of the sacredness of the spiritual traditions of
>> > Christianity, I am certain that I understand, again perhaps at a level
>>of
>> > experience that transcends logical or verbal definition, the exalted
>> > spiritual states of Hildegard Von Bingen that she expressed in her
>>music. I
>> > know that because of my connection to music that I can assure you
>>plumbs the
>> > deepest wells of the human soul. Please excuse my vanity and
>>pretension
>> > here, but I feel strongly that I know of one way to unify spiritual
>> > experiences across culture and religion.
>> >
>> > I think we are structured as human beings to feel religious experience,
>>the
>> > experience of the "sacred," perhaps we are even hard wired in our brain
>> > networks for a religious faculty of mind. Thus music in all cultures
>>is
>> > used to evoke the sacred based on this commonality of structure of the
>>human
>> > mind. There are other ways, I am certain, in which religious
>>experience is
>> > linked across religions. Why not embrace the commonality of the
>>experience
>> > of the sacred across cultures? Is this not a wise and humane project?
>> > Would not this endeavor do much to stop hatred and war based on
>>religion?
>> > Humanity is not so at odds with itself as is commonly thought!
>> >
>> > Well, I suspect my ideas will not resonate with joy in your mind.
>> > Sorry....
>> >
>> > Of course I do not believe in many of the religious beliefs that
>>Hildegard
>> > held dear, nor do I buy into much of the mystical trappings of
>>Buddhism, but
>> > should that preclude an appreciation of the mystical sacred dimensions
>>of
>> > the music of both Christianity and Buddhism? And based on this
>>commonality
>> > can I not truly state, as I did, that I accept the validity of the
>>spiritual
>> > traditions of religions across the human race, to shorten my statement?
>> Of
>> > course, of course, I should have qualified my statement to indicate I
>>do not
>> > mean ALL religious traditions to the letter, especially any religious
>> > traditions that inflict pain and harm, such as forcing women under
>>threat of
>> > force to keep their lovely breasts all tied up and hidden from public
>>view,
>> > which are actions that any humane ethical system would seek to avoid.
>>But
>> > this is obvious!
>> >
>> > Read Principia Ethica! You will not agree with it, but just maybe you
>>can
>> > open your mind to another viewpoint!
>> >
>> > Ted
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > >From: "David Douglas" <ddouglas@pacsim.com>
>> > >To: "'Ted Moffett'" <ted_moffett@hotmail.com>, <vision2020@moscow.com>
>> > >Subject: RE: Compassion
>> > >Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 22:17:17 -0700
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >Ted Moffet says:
>> > >
>> > >"You do a disservice to your ideology and/or theology by coming to the
>> > >defense of misogynist mud slinging."
>> > >Ted,
>> > >
>> > >I *just* about gave a little preamble in my letter distancing myself
>>from
>> > >Mr. Harrell. However, I really didn't think it was necessary because
>>that
>> > >wasn't the point of my post. For the record, I neither justify nor
>>defend
>> > >what Mr. Harrell wrote.
>> > >
>> > >I see no active defense for Mr. Harrell in my post. My "defense" of
>>him,
>> > >such as it was, came from my disagreement about *your* reasoning.
>>Based on
>> > >your reasoning, I saw no basis for *you* to make any kind of value
>>judgment
>> > >at all. That you can indicates (to me) that your reasoning was
>> > >inconsistent; whether you agree with my reasoning or not, it does not
>> > >constitute a defense of Mr. Harrell. Lucy made a pretty good case, I
>> > >thought.
>> > >
>> > >Perhaps I was in error in picking that particular example, especially
>> > >since,
>> > >based on your response, I didn't communicate my point well. Mind if I
>>try
>> > >again, sans Mr. Harrell? By way of a less volatile(?) example, you
>>seem to
>> > >be disagreeing with Doug Wilson in a different thread: let me
>>rephrase and
>> > >ask again a couple of my questions.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >Mr. Moffet writes:
>> > >" ...mindset, that accepts the validity of and sacredness of the many
>> > >valuable cultural and religious traditions of the human race. "
>> > >
>> > >And I ask:
>> > > What, (and/or how) specifically, does one believe that is consistent
>>with,
>> > >and accepts as valid, the many religious traditions of the human race?
>> > >and
>> > > "Some say there is no God, while others say God is everything (or
>>rather
>> > >everything is God). If everyone can be correct, why not Doug Wilson?
>>"
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >David Douglas
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _________________________________________________________________
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>>
>>
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