Re: Theological Attack On Public Schools

[ltrwritr@moscow.com (Mark Rounds)]

Folks

I have a couple of quick points to make on this issue.  First of all, Dale's
service to this country is not something he needs to be villified for.  It
is something we should say thank you for.  If you compare the salary rates,
especially those of 20 years ago to the regular population, any benefits
and/or education he got and is still recieving has a long way to go to make
up what was given in public service.  I realize that this comes from another
old veteran and might be suspect but I think not ;-)

Secondly, there are some real reasons cited in secular literature why
private theological schools can do more with less.  Unfortunately, they
don't scale up very well at all when applied in larger structures.  

The biggest issue is commited parents.  If someone is going to go to the
significantly greater added expense of sending kids to a private school are
also the ones who will check to make sure the homework gets done, make sure
the kids get to all the functions that turns schools into learning
communities, and they also volunteer to do lots of extras that public
schools have to pay staff for.

The second is a homogenous background.  It is also cited in the literature
that teachers from the same kind of background as the students relate to the
students easier, win their confidence faster, and find examples that the
kids can relate to in making their lessons clear.

Theologically based schools also get significantly more help from alumni and
like minded thinkers in terms of financial help but more importantly, one on
one adult time with the students.  Having an adult outside the family taking
a kind interest in a child is a great morale builder to inspire a child to
do his best.

Taken as a whole, they also don't take as many disadvantage children that
are statisitcally shown to have more learning problems.  Note that I said
learning problems and not less intelligent.  The black board, lecture,
discussion test cycle works with only about 38% of the populous.  Private
schools of all stripes get more of that 38%.

These are all great but don't scale up well when dealing with all the
children of the country.  Some children are in broken homes that can not or
will not spare the adult volunteer time to support education.

Our populous is a hetergenous mix of cultures and we can't always find
teachers that can related to all groups.  Examples that are crystal clear to
some will be muddy to others and require repeats and restatements.  This
affects learning in two ways, first there is less time to cover new
material.  Secondly, the kids who got it the first time, get bored hearing
it again and tune out and often miss what comes next.

Also because the public schools have to deal with more of the 62% who don't
learn well from the black board, lecture, discussion test cycle, they have
to teach in different ways to better meet the needs of the tactile and
visual learners.  This does take more time and resources.

Finally, even though public schools have PTA's and the like, the numbers of
committed adults is much less per student.  

Does this mean I am down on Relgious schools?  No.  There serve a specific
population very well.  They just can't scale up to meet the needs of the
rest of the populous because the ways they do it cheaper only work because
they have a certain selected group.  We need both.

There are those who have said that the public schools are a failure.  They
are not.  Providing an education to all (admittedly some good and some bad)
has given the use a greater per capita share of engineers, musicans,
scientists and many others that have made us the richest and most powerful
nation in the world.  There have been other countries with as good or better
positions concerning the natural resouces of the land, but none of them have
shined the way the US has because we have a culture that rewards enginuity
and hard work.  That came from an educated populous.  I can cite books if
you like the the message is common sense.

The point was also made that perhaps we should make the taxation system a la
carte, if you opted out of the public school system, you would opt out of
that form of taxation.  It might also make sense to apply that to all the
government agencies.  If they provided a service that you didn't need, you
could opt out.  Say you didn't believe in the use of lethal force, you could
opt out of supporting the military, if you didn't believe in certain kinds
of research you could opt out of that.  This list is endless and I have
several pet project to go on the chopping block first.  

The very obvious backlash would be that people would start believing you
could opt out of any laws you didn't see fit to believe in.  Rather than
debate them and work to a compromise, you could just ignore them, not fund
the police and do as you please.  Social choas would follow and standards of
living would plumet if we just opted out rather than trying to compromise.  

There are also folks that do not have the means to educate their children
properly through no fault of their own and some of whom it is very decidedly
their fault that they can't.  In either case, should the children be
penalized?  What was their crime?  Choosing the wrong parents?  Many of
these kids grow up to be contributing members of society.  Woud have them
all left in the rubish bin?

Mark Rounds

At 12:08 AM 8/29/2002 +0000, Ted Moffett wrote:
>
>Dale, Greg et. al.
>
>I also noted that Dale has not yet, unless I missed it, addressed the data 
>Greg gave on the national trends for public and private school enrollment, 
>we can presume because it does not bode well for Dale's general argument.  
>So, Dale, either show us why Greg's data is wrong or admit he has made a 
>important point!
>
>As to Dale's past history, well, this is a personal issue that just 
>complicates this debate:  argument ad hominem is a tactic I strongly 
>dislike, often used to influence a discussion on emotional grounds, and 
>often does not serve to illuminate the IDEAS that are the essence of a 
>dispute.  We all have behavior that can be pointed to that might contradict 
>strongly held beliefs.  This is not psychoanalysis here!
>
>And speaking of the essence of this debate, I do not believe that if the 
>"government schools" in Moscow were increasing their enrollment and 
>operating in an astonishingly frugal, successful and efficient manner, that 
>Dale would then support them.  This debate on enrollment and cost is 
>somewhat diversionary and off subject.  The essence of this debate, it seems 
>to me, is what the "government schools" are teaching or not teaching, that 
>leads us to the critical objection, based on theological grounds, that Dale 
>makes to the agenda of the public schools.
>
>This is why I subject headed my post on this issue "Theological Attack On 
>Public Schools."
>
>Ted
>
>>From: Greg Burton <gburton@sltrib.com>
>>To: Dale Courtney <dmcourtn@moscow.com>
>>CC: vision2020@moscow.com
>>Subject: Re: Theological Attack On Public Schools
>>Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 03:02:00 -0600
>>
>>Please, I can take no more. Just two final points. You still have not
>>responded to the overall national numbers. Public, up. Private, down. And,
>>as to my final point, just making sure I understand where you, being a
>>pagan government employee, are coming from when you talk about pagan
>>government schools.
>>
>>
>>cheers, greg
>>
>> > Aren't you, by the by, a former pagan,
>>
>> > > government employee, 20-year Navy nuclear sub vet who was
>> > > trained on taxpayer dollars as an engineer and are now
>> > > retired on a pagan, government pension?
>> >
>> > All true! I spent 20 years serving my country under water fighting the
>> > Cold War keeping the nation safe for democracy and your 1st amendment
>> > rights.
>> >
>> > And your point is?
>> >
>> > Dale Courtney
>> > Moscow, Idaho
>><< gburton.vcf >>
>
>
>
>
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