RE: this applies to Iran and Iraq as well!

["Shahab Mesbah" <meteor2@moscow.com>]

Dear Erik,

You are saying everything I have said for several years on this post...
thank you. I think you are misunderstanding what is in my mind and heart,
however, and for that I apologize... I am not as eloquent as many of you.

In my view there is no question that we must hit the bastard that did this
and hit them hard. As I recall we established that and put the issue to rest
a while back. Do we need justice? Absolutely. Should we help the people of
Afghanistan so they will not have to deal with these bastards again? That is
where I am at this time. If we are serious about destroying terrorism we
must destroy its incubator... injustice. The fact that last week's events
were retaliation to our foreign policy of past several decades does not give
justification to what happened; just as what happened is not justification
for us to pulverize Afghanistan. Get rid of terrorists? Sign me up... get
rid of the evil drug lords of Afghanistan the Taliban? I am with you all the
way; just don't forget those who have suffered the most in this. We have to
go in with the spirit of helping spread freedom and justice. This is the way
of WWII and it is on our parents' principles we need to rely again. In WWII
we made Europe strong enough to resist terror... now we need to do the same
with the Middle East. You cannot have it both ways. We cannot afford to be
racist any longer. As much as I hate to admit it we are very prejudice as a
nation. We have made things politically correct and usually do not say
things but the way we act speaks for itself. Indeed our apathy towards the
rest of the world seems to be focused on everywhere but Europe. The western
Europeans are like us but the rest of them are not. Millions of Africans
have died due to tyrant rulers and we did nothing. Why is that? Can you tell
me if that happened in Germany we would have had the same reaction? We think
we are the beacon of freedom to the world... this was true 50 years ago but
today we look very much like those colonial masters of the past! Lets change
that. I don't care whose fault it was... it is irrelevant. What is relevant
is that we have strayed from our path. We have not been the champions for
justice for decades. We have criticized those who saw the error and
criticized us for having forgotten our mission. We have told ourselves that
blind loyalty is patriotism. Do you think George Washington would agree with
that? This country was based in opposition to the colonialist masters... now
we have become what we fought so long against... it is our duty as Americans
to bring the pride, the justice, the unwavering fortitude back to our
society. I do not like dwelling in the past faults and mistakes. I rarely
speak of it. But we cannot forget it is there, lest we forget the lessons.
To err is human... we are not perfect. But we cannot forget the lessons of
the past. We cannot give in to terrorism. We have to fight it in many
fronts. Military is only one front... if we do not destroy it completely
like a cancer it returns again and again each time more entrenched until it
will destroy us all!

"Your brother in arms"
Shahab...


-----Original Message-----
From: Erik [mailto:odaniel@moscow.com]
Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2001 11:02 AM
To: vision2020@moscow.com
Subject: Re: this applies to Iran and Iraq as well!

It seems to me that both sides are slightly wrong.

Kill all the terrorists?  Sure.
Solve problems at home?  Sure.

It seems to me those who want to apply our first efforts towards the second
objective are missing the boat.

First and foremost, these people strike me as using the tragedy to further
their own political agendas.  I'm very sad for them.  I've seen articles
crying about our "liberal gun policies" at home.  No offense, but bullshit.
Our freedom to purchase firearms hasn't contributed to this tragedy.  That's
a self-serving political move, and one of the ugliest I've ever seen at
that.

Sure, we need to examine the WHY of this, but the more pressing examination
is into the WHO.  Those people should be killed or brought to Justice.  We
need to do our best to prevent this from happening again next week, and
taking out the people behind this tragedy is the surest way of doing that.

"Democracy, the practice of self-government, is a covenant among free men to
respect the rights and liberties of their fellows"
- Franklin D. Roosevelt

It seems to me that many people have forgotten, or more likely never even
learned in that piss-poor institution we call the public schools, that
Freedom is a very large thing.  It encompasses freedom to be a jerk, and
ability to cause harm to others.  That is a price that we choose to pay so
we may enjoy the Good of Freedom.  It is a price that MUST be paid.  Freedom
and the potential for tragedy go hand in hand.  Those that think we can
prevent tragedy are out to lunch.  Or they don't appreciate Freedom.

"Those who have long enjoyed such privileges as we enjoy forget in time that
men have died to win them."
- Franklin D. Roosevelt

And it seems to me that, again, people don't understand or never really
learned that another price of Freedom is that people must die.  Bad people
must die, and Good people must die in the course of weeding out the bad
guys.  Death is sad, but it is a price that must be paid.  Nothing Good is
without cost.

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of
patriots and tyrants."
- Thomas Jefferson

I am actually surprised that we haven't had another "follow-up" tragedy.
The resources of the men behind this are vast.  They really would have hurt
us with another hijacking.  I think they fairly proved that they have the
ability and the will, and that is why they must be killed.  Passing
legislation to further infringe the 2nd amendment, or to make the CIA's
activities public information (that's rather crazy), or to limit our foreign
aid, and such is NOT going to make these nutjobs change their opinions of
the United States.

It's crazy to think that achieving only one of these objectives is going to
solve the problem.  Obviously the problem is more complex than that.  The
more imminent danger is from the terrorists - so let's kill them.

Erik
Idaho

(If anyone cares to argue that Good and Bad/Evil are just arbitrary
distinctions, go jump in a lake.  I don't have time for you.)