vision2020
RE: Democracy or Republic
Actually, I came to it through a very good program some time ago on PBS.
This constitution scholar was talking about the history of how the
constitution was created. He had researched all the letters and the notes of
the discussions for many years. Evidently the Electoral College was not a
popular thing then either... it was a compromise to get the constitution
finished and get the support of as many "states" as possible. It was a very
good program and if I am not mistaken, the scholar was a republican... I
wish I remembered the details like the name!:(
Your brother in arms,
Shahab...
-----Original Message-----
From: John Cavalieri [mailto:jcaval@uidaho.edu]
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 6:40 PM
To: Shahab Mesbah
Cc: Mark Rounds; WMSteed@aol.com; vision2020@moscow.com; bwolf@moscow.com
Subject: RE: Democracy or Republic
"founding fathers did not trust the public to make the right decisions"
That is a pretty bold statment. I don't remember leaning that in
U.S. History.
John Cavalieri
jcaval@uidaho.edu
__________________________________________________________________________
On Thu, 14 Dec 2000, Shahab Mesbah wrote:
> Dearest friends,
>
> I certainly agree with many of Susan's points. However, I must disagree
with
> her analysis of the Electoral College. I find it offensive to live in a
> state that dictates what my political choice is. The Electoral College is
> exactly that. Since I live in Idaho and Idaho is as a whole republican
then
> my vote in this state is meaningless. You talk about the fact that
everyone
> does not vote... if you are in Idaho and you do not want to vote
republican
> you are wasting your vote... your vote is meaningless. The state has a
> certain number of electoral votes determined by its population. The
populous
> states will have the same amount of pull without the Electoral College as
> they do now. The only difference will be that EVERY vote will count. So,
if
> you voted for Bush and you lived in a democratic state... your vote would
> count... now it does not. The Electoral College was put into place because
> the founding fathers did not trust the public to make the right decisions.
> In those days the communications and education of the public was not as
well
> developed. The Electoral College is an antiquated idea. It is the main
> reason why the system we have in this wonderful country is so very
> unpopular. It is at the root of apathy in our beloved country.
>
> I agree that neither candidate was great. I disliked the Electoral College
> when Regan became president and I hated it just as much when Clinton was
> elected and I would have hated it if Gore were the next president. My
views
> transcend partisan politics for I believe that partisan politics is
> inherently evil! Partisan politics is based on the same idiotic principles
> as "fundamentalist religion". It is a way to generalize and exclude others
> who do not exactly meet our mold. It is the easy way... it is a way
without
> thought... without ethics... without justice... and mostly without respect
> for Truth. The fact is that most Americans are not either one... we are
> somewhere in the middle. So why even bother with such an idiotic method of
> branding opinions?
>
> Your brother in arms,
>
> Shahab...
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Rounds [mailto:ltrwritr@moscow.com]
> Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 12:41 PM
> To: WMSteed@aol.com; vision2020@moscow.com
> Cc: bwolf@moscow.com
> Subject: Re: Democracy or Republic
>
> Good Morning!
>
> I have been reading the vitriolic messages bouncing back and forth about
the
> recent presidential election, and had to send in my two cents.
>
> First of all, I was enamored with none of the candidates. I thought they
> held too much to strict party doctrine and offered little to the
independent
> voter. Instead of either party choosing a candidate that would draw the
> independent vote, each party chose from the loyal party ranks and then
tried
> to market their man to draw the independent vote. Sorry, but I honestly
> beleive people are smart enought to recognize marketing when they see it.
>
> Secondly, given the dismal choice of candidates this year, the fact that
one
> vote in this household went to Nader was not a sign the vote was `stolen'
as
> that vote would NEVER have been cast for Gore. Sorry, but that was
strictly
> cast as a protest vote against ANY of the party faithful.
>
> Finally, please think carefully about following quote regarding the
> electoral college:
>
> >
> > Whereas the prospect of electing to office a President and
> >
> >Vice President who did not win the largest number of popular votes has
> >
> >generated proposals calling for a constitutional amendment to provide
> >
> >for the direct popular election of the President and Vice President.
> >
> >
> > Whereas such a national popular election for President and
> >
> >Vice President disregards the constitutional integrity and inviolability
> >
> >of the 50 states as independent and sovereign governments;
> >
> >
> > Whereas in their foresight and wisdom, the people of the
> >
> >United States, meeting by representation in State conventions, adopted a
> >
> >national Constitution preserving the independence and equal standing of
> >
> >the 50 states;
> >
> >
> > Whereas the Federal system of equal and independent states
> >
> >is an essential safeguard against shifting wills of the majority
> >
> >overriding the unchanging rights of the minority;
> >
> >
> > Whereas to preserve the rights of the minority from a
> >
> >tyranny of the majority, the Constitution of the United States struck a
> >
> >principled balance between the people of the most populous States and
> >
> >the people of the least populous States.
> >
>
>
> We live in a sparsely populated, western state. Do we really want to give
> up the electoral college and allow all elections to be decided by the
> populations of California, Texas and the states of the Eastern Seaboard?
> Frankly I got suspicious when Hillary Rodham Clinton said she would be
very
> willing to sponsor a bill abolishing the electoral college as one of her
> first acts in Congress.
>
> I am an optimist, because I think the system still functions as it was
> intended, at least for the most part. The arguments regarding dishonesty
> of the election are not new, have surfaced with many close elections. But
> remember the number of states where votes were tallied without a hitch,
and
> think of all the electoral districts without problems. I also think that
> this will never happen agaiin in Florida, for whatever reason you care to
> imagine. Maybe another state, another year, but never again in Florida.
>
> I am jaded by Federal elections. First of all, we have little say about
the
> candidates that will pass the primary level. Heck, this year the
> Presidential candidates were decided before we ever got to our Primary!
> Secondly, they talk about a 49.% vs. 49% split of the votiing population
> and we have endless queries about the will of the `majority'. I am
sorry,
> but 49% of the 60% or so that voted does not constitute any `majority' of
> the people in this country.
>
> Finally, I dislike public posturing, name calling, endless legal
> manipulation and so forth. It seems both main parties are equally guilty
in
> this. In my mind the best man in the Presidential election would have
been
> the one that said `This is a null contest, the majority of the American
> People have cast their vote for NOBODY, including me, so I withdraw" The
> irony would be we'd be left with the worst of the possiblities!
>
> Since I liked none of the available candidates and I am a member of
neither
> party, I have no political ax to grind. But I do wish to express my
sincere
> gratitude that the electoral college does exist, and offer my heartfelt
> thanks to the courteous and honorable people that do run for office, at
> whatver level!
>
> Susan Rounds
>
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