vision2020
Re: Alleged Wyoming hate crime
I think setting a cross on fire in someone's yard would also fall
under arson.
I realize we prosecute "intent" all the time. For example, "intent"
is what separates the degrees of murder.
I wonder what would happen to blind justice under hate crime laws.
Would it as bad for Louis Farrakhan's thugs to murder a white man just
because he was white as it would be for the KKK to murder a black man
because of his color?
Another thing. What if I went out in the street and started shouting
invective against stay-at-home-moms? Screaming they were a bunch of
Maury Povitch-watching, bon-bon eating trash? Saying I hated
stay-at-home-moms simply because they stay at home? That's
intimidation (assuming I shout loud enough) based upon their inclusion
in a specific group.
Or is the whole thing just silly? Shouldn't we just prosecute
murderers for murder and obnoxious shouters for disturbing the peace?
Briana
curley@cypher.turbonet.com wrote:
>
> As one other small example. What exact crime is committed when
> a cross is burned in someone's yard? Without hate crime legislation
> there might be a trespass (a relatively minor offense), and there
> might be willful destruction of property--although since the torchers
> are burning presumably their own property, that may not fit the
> particular state's definition of that crime. Hate crime legislation
> can, if the legislature chooses, add an element to the crime such as
> "with intent to intimidate, threaten, . . ." (I have not surveyed the
> language of model legislation or what has actually been enacted in
> various states). With that added element, the consequences or
> punishment for the crime can be appropriately enhanced compared to
> the simple trespass crime.
> Certainly, if the criminals choose instead to burn down a church of
> largely minority membership, that is a crime in every state. Whether
> we choose to enhance the penalty when it can be proven (it still has
> to convince a jury of EVERY element of the crime beyond a reasonable
> doubt) that the crime was committed with an added element of racial
> or national origin motivation is a matter of society's choice.
> Individually, I favor the POSSIBILITY of more severe punishment of
> one who burns down the church for demonstrable "hate crime" reasons
> than one who burns down a house or building for other reasons.
> An added factor for me is similar to Ms. McHugh's: I think it is
> important that we as a society make it clear through legislation AND
> enforcement that we will not tolerate the indimidation, injury, or
> degrading treatment of a person or group by reason of their inclusion
> in or affiliation with a specific group. My primary concern is that
> the legislation be written in a way that it accomplishes the purposes
> for which it is written with a narrow enough stroke that it not
> intrude into areas not intended.
>
> Mike Curley
>
>
> Date: Thu, 15 Oct
> 1998 08:02:35 +0800 (PST) From: Maree McHugh
> <emchugm@gritman.org> Subject: Re: Alleged Wyoming hate crime
> To: Briana LeClaire <mmsmom1@yahoo.com> Cc:
> vision2020@moscow.com
>
> The differentiation of a "hate" crime would be important. Recall
when the
> domestic violence laws were defined and enacted; perhaps defining
hate
> crimes will bring increased awareness, and hopefully some
> semblence of protection to those
> who are targeted by such acts of inhumanity and small minded stupidity
> We need to analyze and understand why hate crimes occur.
>
> On Thu, 15 Oct 1998, Briana LeClaire wrote:
>
> > >It does suggest that Mr. Probasco's question might
> > > deserve further analysis and discussion.
> >
> > Well then let's analyze and question it further. Professor Goble?
> > Linda Pall? Any other lawyers out there? Explain to Professor
> > Probasco and me why we need hate crime legislation when assault,
> > battery, slander and murder are already crimes.
> >
> > Maybe lawyers are the exact wrong people to be asking, but I'll
chance
> > it. I'd address this question to Tom Trail (a lawmaker) too, but to
> > my knowledge he's out of the country.
> >
> > Thank you -- Briana LeClaire
> >
> > curley@cypher.turbonet.com wrote:
> > >
> > > Yes, I think most of us would say that Civil Rights legislation
> > > of the '60s made a significant difference in the opportunity
> > > for members of minority groups to participate in many of the
> > > social and economic and personal benefits to which they had been
> > > previously denied. Unfortunately it did not necessarily change
> > > the hatred or vile conduct.
> > > I understand the issues that prompted Mr. Probasco's question to
be
> > > (a) how making it a "hate crime" to commit an act that is
already a
> > > "crime" will more likely deter the conduct or increase
enforcement,
> > > and (b) whether federal involvement makes more sense than
> > > encouraging or demanding individual state legislation--assuming
that
> > > additional legislation makes sense. There have been instances of
> > > hate crime legislation being written such that conduct that none
of
> > > us reasonably wants to be forbidden, ie. criminalized, has not
only
> > > been within the ambit of the statute, but was also enforced at
the
> > > insistence of some allegedly aggrieved party.
> > > None of those observations is to say hate crime legislation is
> > > inappropriate. It does suggest that Mr. Probasco's question
might
> > > deserve further analysis and discussion.
> > >
> > > Mike Curley
> > >
> > > Date: Wed, 14
> > > Oct 1998 11:48:17 -0700 To: vision2020@moscow.com
From:
> > > Robert Hoffmann <escape@alt-escape.com> Subject: Re:
> > > Alleged Wyoming hate crime
> > >
> > > At 11:11 AM 10/14/98 -0700, you wrote:
> > > >While I deplore the sorry event in Wyoming, I do not perceive how
> > > >including the federal government would have changed anything.
> > > >
> > > >Wyoming already has laws against assault and battery (and
murder).
> > What
> > > >difference would another layer of legislation have provided?
> > > > Bob Probasco
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >On Wed, 14 Oct 1998, Scott Dredge wrote:
> > > >> I believe that we should enact federal legislation to uniformly
> > enforce
> > > >> punishment across the nation in cases involving hate crimes.
> > >
> > > What difference did Civil Rights Legislation of the 1960's make?
> > > Robert Hoffmann 115 N. Jackson St., Suite D
> > > Alt-Escape Adventures Moscow, ID 83843 USA
> > > http://www.alt-escape.com Phone: (208) 883-0642
> > > Fax: (208) 883-8545
> > >
> > > Mike Curley
> > > reply to: curley@turbonet.com
> > > 208-882-3536
> > >
> > >
> > _________________________________________________________
> > DO YOU YAHOO!?
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> >
>
>
>
> Mike Curley
> reply to: curley@turbonet.com
> 208-882-3536
>
>
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