FW: Subject: Death Penalty; Eric E./Bruce/Melynda

[Eric Engerbretson <votive@earthlink.net>]

Title: FW: Subject: Death Penalty; Eric E./Bruce/Melynda

> ----------
> From: Eric Engerbretson <votive@earthlink.net>
> Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 10:07:44 -0700
> To: <vision2020-digest-request@moscow.com>
> Bcc: Dave Engerbretson <dengerbr@moscow.com>
> Subject: Re: Subject: Death Penalty; Eric E./Bruce/Melynda

> > Dear Eric,
> > 
> > I think I missed some stages in your argument, because you seem to me to be 
> > saying:
> > 
> > a.  Yes, there are often mistakes in capital cases, which is
> > regrettable--but it is more Godly to execute innocent people mistakenly than 
> > to fail to execute *somebody.*
>
> Melynda, unfortunately, yes, the things I said were pretty clear, but I'll try to take your slight twist out of them...
>
> What I said is that I believe that God commanded the death penalty for murderers. Human imperfectness will necessarily bring about occasional mistakes in judgement-- horribly regrettable, yes, but not an excuse to waive God's command.  My main point in this whole death penalty argument is that judicial mistakes are made on both sides... both resulting in innocent people suffering (recidivist crime)-- but I believe the facts and police records would show that more innocent people are harmed or killed by recidivist crime than innocent people are unjustly executed.  And that is not considering the deterrant factor that a nation-wide, consistent, death penalty would have. So... I think once again, God is wiser than us. 
>
> When one person is unjustly executed people throw an absolute fit (as they should), but when a large number of innocent people, all over the country, are murdered or raped by fellows who should have been in jail at the time, those same fit-throwers, shrug their shoulders and say "Whaddya gonna do?"    Why don't those same folks throw an absolute fit about this?  Which is worse-- an innocent man being unjustly executed or an innocent man being raped and murdered by a recidivist criminal??  I would say they are both equally terrible. The question then is: which happens more often and which system of justice does more to promulgate its corresponding horror?  I would say the latter happens much more often in a greater variety of nasty ways, and yet people are still more opposed to the relatively lesser horror. Very strange.  
>
> And regardless of the practicalities, yes, I think it is more Godly to obey God's commands and make an occasional mistake than to refuse to obey God and say that we are wiser and more gracious than He-- bigger mistake.  In the end, we will reap what we sow.
>
> > 
> > b.  Anyone found guilty of murder should be killed immediately, in order to 
> > demonstrate the sanctity and value of life.
>
> The Bible says: " Because the sentence against an evil work is not executed speedily, therefore the heart of man is fully set  to do evil." Eccl 8:11  
>
> The Sixth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution says: "the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy trial".  Do you think that the writers of the Constitution meant " a speedy trial and a very long, drawn-out, plodding wait for application of the sentence."?!  Yes, swift administering of the law to penalize a murderer does demonstrate the value that a society places on the life of a victim.
>
> > 
> > c.  The swift execution of convicted murderers, regardless of their actual 
> > guilt or innocence, would so impress the population with the justice of the 
> > penal system that they would be deterred from committing murder.
>
> Absolutely. Common sense dictates this, as well as the statistics. A quick look at the statistics provided by the United States Department of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics shows that capital punishment is definitely a deterrant.  Check out the data graphs at:       http://my.voyager.net/~jayjo/capdeter.htm
>
> Within Texas, the most aggressive death penalty prosecutions are in Harris County (the Houston area). Since the resumption of executions in 1982, the annual number of Harris County murders has plummeted from 701 to 241 -- 
> a 72 percent decrease.
>
> In 1985, a study was published by economist Stephen K. Layson at the University of North Carolina that showed that every execution of a murderer deters, on average, 18 murders. The study also showed that raising the number of death sentences by one percent would prevent 105 murders. However, only 38 percent of all murder cases result in a death sentence, and of those, only 0.1 percent are actually executed.
>
> The Honorable B. Rey Shauer, Justice of the Supreme Court of California, has said:  "That the ever present potentiality in California of the death penalty, for murder in the commission of armed robbery, each year saves the lives of scores, if not hundreds of victims of such crimes, I cannot think, reasonably be doubted by any judge who has had substantial experience at the trial court level with the handling of such persons. I know that during my own trial court experience...included some four to five years (1930-1934) in a department of the superior court exclusively engaged in handling felony cases, I repeatedly heard from the lips of robbers...substantially the same story: 'I used a toy gun [or a simulated gun or a gun in which the firing pin or hammer had been extracted or damaged] because I didn't want my neck stretched.' (The penalty, at the time referred to, was hanging.)"
>
> The evidence is endless.
>
> And believe it or not, God thinks it is a deterrent, too. He says, "So you shall put away the evil from Israel. And all the people shall hear and fear, and no longer act presumptuously." in Deut. 17:12-13, and the same sort of thing in many other places, too.
>
> > 
> > d.  A-C above are actually in accordance with the Divine Will, even if they 
> > appear to be obscene perversions of justice.
>
> Some things are not what they appear to be.  The Bible says that to non-Bible-believers, the truths of the Bible will seem like foolishness.  Now there's  a Biblical truth we can all  agree on. 
>
> > 
> > Now, that can't be what you meant.  Help me understand where I'm missing the 
> > boat.
> > 
> > Melynda Huskey
>
> Did you honestly want to know where you missed the boat, Melynda? Somehow I think you just want to prove that *I* missed the boat, fell off the dock, and am all wet.
>
> But if you did really want to know, I hope I helped you to at least understand a bit more about where some Christians are coming from. By arguing with you, I most sincerely don't mean any disrespect. I tend to wax sarcastic, but I hope I was not offensive. As I've said to others, I would love to talk further with you about these things in person if you would like...
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Eric E.