vision2020
Re: Topless issue in Moscow, few words more
Ms. Krehbiel
While I didn't choose the name, the concept is appropriate. Rights do
equate with responsibilities. However you are laboring under some false
data. Most of the membership of that organization are not saying, "down
with the ordinance and let no other rise in its place". Most are in favor
of an ordinance that is gender neutral, leaves less selective enforcement to
chance, and one that is less likely to be challenged.
I and many others in town have suggested this path and we have not been
responded to save by Peg Hamlet and a couple of e-mails from John Guyer.
However the laws do not allow for us to ask that the ordinance be amended,
our only recourse, if the council will not move, is to strike it down and
then get more involved in the process to formulate another one.
Most of us believe that the police need a tool to shut down things like the
topless car wash but also believe that it can be done without infringing on
the rights of women.
Before the wags start, I do know the difference between men and women,
having been married for 24 years this month to my lovely wife. But I also
know that Blacks, Asian, Indians, Hispanics and on and on are different too.
I don't require that they all be the same. In, fact I glory in the fact
that they aren't. These different branches of the human race have brought
us great literature, glorious art and wonderful foods. I most decidedly
don't want that to go away and I don't want them to become all the same,
just protected equally under the law.
Mark Rounds
PS> for those of you who are wondering why my wife is writing this, be
assured that she is rooting for me in the background and suggesting topics
and focuses of this e-mail. I am just the computer geek in the family where
she is the medical one.
At 11:28 AM 8/13/2002 -0700, Kacey Krehbiel wrote:
>I have a question for the Muscovites for Equal Rights,
>
>Is there a reason that your name is not Muscovites for Equal Rights and
>Equal Responsibilities? Do you believe that we should all be allowed to do
>the same things, but women do not have to do some things that men must? And
>vice versa.
>
>Also, if you believe that we need to stop thinking of women's bodies as
>sexual objects, why not men's bodies as well. Maybe we should all walk
>around naked. Perhaps the name of your group should be Muscovites for
>Nudism. Saying that breasts are okay to show to everyone because they
>'nourish life' is ridiclous, everything on the body is used to sustain life,
>does that mean that we should be able to show our entire bodies? It is only
>logic.
>
>Disgusted,
>-Kacey Krehbiel
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Muscovites for Equal Rights"
><wearemuscovitesforequalrights@hotmail.com>
>To: <vision2020@moscow.com>; <kaceyk@moscow.com>
>Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 10:32 AM
>Subject: Re: Topless issue in Moscow, few words more
>
>
>> Like it or not, this issue has become international. People all over the
>> world know (at least what little is being reported) about our town's new
>> law.
>> They are wondering why women are still being subject to sexist laws.
>> I question describing this web page as pornographic. The pictures are not
>> erotic or sexual (in my mind, at least) The intent was not to cause
>> prurient feelings. From what I can tell, the women are just being proud
>of
>> their womenhood. It is intent and action that makes something
>pornographic.
>> I think this description of the pictures being "pornographic" is the crux
>of
>> our problem. Certain people seem unable to look at a female breast
>without
>> being turned on or offended in some way. I bet though, that if the women
>> were wearing bikinis, that reviewer would still be turned on.
>Particularly
>> if her intent was to be sexual.
>> Perhaps our society is not ready to accept women as anything but sex
>> objects. Hopefull this debate will cause people to at least think about
>why
>> we object to this law and the notion that women should be banned from
>> showing their breasts in public view. Perhaps the next generation will
>> understand that breasts are intended to nourish life. They are part of a
>> women's ability to maintain our species. Just because they can be used
>> during sex, like all other parts of a woman's body, is no reason to make
>> women ashamed of baring her breasts, at the very least in a place "open to
>> public view."
>> Other countries have caught on to the fact that granting women the same
>> freedom as men in regards to baring your chest will not cause the downfall
>> of that society. Hopefully someday we will understand this as well.
>> I wonder if someone could share with us the scripture that says women must
>> keep her breasts covered. It would be nice to know the biblical basis for
>> this belief.
>> Garrett Clevenger
>>
>>
>>
>> It is very noble to have a cause and believe in it. It is a very good
>idea
>> to make a website devoted to that cause. However, using the Vision2020
>> mailing list to spread email ads for pornography I think, may be a bit
>over
>> the top.
>> -Kacey
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Topfree Action" <womens_choice_org@yahoo.com>
>> To: <vision2020@moscow.com>
>> Sent: Friday, August 09, 2002 7:55 PM
>> Subject: Topless issue in Moscow, few words more
>>
>>
>> >Hello and many greetings from Europe to all members of
>> >this mailing list from new members - small group of
>> >enthusiasts ! :)
>> >
>> >Reason why we have joined this list is "topless issue"
>> >in your city: we are runing web site which deals with
>> >question "should women have right to go topless
>> >wherever men can?" I know that you saw "TERA" site
>> >already - well we are simular to them, but still
>> >different. We would like to show you our work,
>> >especially because we were watching very carefuly all
>> >what is going on with "topless issue" in Moscow and
>> >elsewhere in the USA. Also, our activists have made
>> >special photo dedicated to "topless car wash" in
>> >Moscow - you can find that photo in "Topfree Photo
>> >Album" on our page - and yes, our activists are
>> >topless so if you are religious fundamentalist don`t
>> >say we didn`t warn you ! :)
>> >
>> >We are trying to raise this subject on a higher level
>> >because "topless issue" is not only issue about women
>> >who wants to sunbathe or wash cars topless - there is
>> >much deeper meaning of this question: from general
>> >prejudices about sexuality to consequences of these
>> >prejudices which are really devastating for all of us.
>> >
>> >
>> >Ok - our site is here:
>> >
>> >http://www.geocities.com/womens_choice_org/topfreedom.html
>> >
>> >We would be very thankful for any comment, critic or
>> >advice - on this list or on our "Topfree mailing list"
>> >or on our message board. And don`t forget to check our
>> >"Topfree Photo Album" ! :)
>> >
>> >__________________________________________________
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>>
>>
>>
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>
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