vision2020
Re: Legal System Not Ruled By Christian Bible
Hello Mr. Ted Moffett,
You said "which means that Christians cannot (well let's say they should not)
establish the government of the US as a Christian ruled government,"
But the courts did say that the US is a Christian ruled goverment, "Christianity
is part of the common law." (Just one quick court quote below; but also, the
founders were very adamant in their position that this is a Christian ruled
country, and there are many sources to back up this claim and it is a generally
accepted concept in this country.)
"No free government now exists in the world unless where Christianity is acknowledged,
and is the religion of the country...Its foundations are broad and strong, and deep...
it is the purest system of morality, the firmest auxiliary, and only stable support of
all human laws...Christianity is part of the common law." Updegraph v. Commonwealth
826
Ok, for the sake of an argument, if the US is not a Christian ruled government,
then by what means would law be made? By reason? By marxism? By atheism?
The question will always come back to: by whose standards?
Cheers!
John Harrell
--- Ted Moffett <ted_moffett@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> John Harrell et. al.
>
> We all know the influence Christian beliefs have had on the legal system and
> government and many aspects of US society. However, without delving into
> technical legal issues with court decisions, etc. our constitution also
> provided for freedom of religious worship, which means that Christians
> cannot (well let's say they should not) establish the government of the US
> as a Christian ruled government, akin to Iran or Saudi Arabia in the manner
> in which they are Islamic States. Notice I said our legal system is not
> RULED by the Christian Bible, I did not say there was no influence of
> Christianity in the US Constitution, etc.
>
> So do you want the USA to be a CHRISTIAN RULED government, like Iran is a
> ISLAMIC RULED state?
>
> Ted
>
> >From: John Harrell <johnbharrell@yahoo.com>
> >To: Ted Moffett <ted_moffett@hotmail.com>, vision2020@moscow.com
> >CC: eevans@moscow.com
> >Subject: Re: Legal System Not Ruled By Christian Bible
> >Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 22:09:37 -0700 (PDT)
> >
> >This U.S. Supreme Court decision cites a number of examples that America
> >was founded on
> >Christian principles, and concludes, "There is a universal language
> >pervading [these
> >examples], having one meaning; they affirm and reaffirm that this is a
> >religious nation.
> >These are not individual sayings, declarations of private persons: they are
> >organic
> >utterances; they speak the voice of the entire people. . . . These, and
> >many other
> >matters which might be noticed, add a volume of unofficial declarations to
> >the mass of
> >organic utterances that this is a Christian nation."
> >--Church of the Holy Trinity v. United States, 143 U.S. 457, 9-10.
> >
> >The quotes I give below show without a doubt that the judicial system
> >(along with the
> >founding fathers) knew this was a Christian country and based their
> >verdicts on the
> >christian world-belief system.
> >
> >I. What Did the States Do Just After Declaring Independence?
> >
> >Just after signing of the Declaration of the Independence the individual
> >states
> >considered themselves brand new independent countries. Within a few months
> >each
> >country threw out their compacts (contracts) that they had with England and
> >the
> >England companies and created new constitutions describing the government
> >upon which
> >the new country would govern itself.
> >
> >Read what some of the new countries constitutions said (all new countries
> >had very
> >similar language somewhere in their new constitutions):
> >
> >- Delaware, Article 22: "Every person, who shall be chosen a member of
> >either house,
> >or appointed to any office or place of trust shall...make and subscribe the
> >following
> >declaration, to wit: 'I, __________, do profess faith in God the Father,
> >and in Jesus
> >Christ, His only Son, and in the Holy Ghost, one God, blessed for evermore;
> >and I do
> >acknowledge the holy scriptures of the Old and New Testament to be given by
> >divine
> >inspiration.'"
> >
> >- Pennsylvania, Frame of Government, Section 10: "And each member [of the
> >legislature]
> >before he takes his seat, shall make and subscribe the following
> >declaration, viz: 'I
> >do believe in one God, the creator and governour of the universe, the
> >rewarder of the
> >good and the punisher of the wicked, and I do acknowldedge the scriptures
> >of the Old
> >and new Testament to be given by divine inspiration.'"
> >
> >- Massachusetts, Chapter VI, Article I: "[All persons elected to State
> >office or to the
> >Legislature must] make and subscribe the following declaration, viz. 'I,
> >__________, do
> >declare, that I believe the Christian religion, and have firm persuasion of
> >its truth.'"
> >
> >- North Carolina, Article XXXII: "No person, who shall deny the being of
> >God, or the
> >truth of the Protestant religion, or the divine authority either of the Old
> >or New
> >Testaments, or who shall hold religious principles incompatible with the
> >freedom and
> >safety of the state, shall be capable of holding any office, or place of
> >trust or
> >profit in the civil department, within this state."
> >
> >- Maryland, Article XXXV: "That no other test or qualification ought to be
> >required...
> >than such oath of support and fidelity to this state...and a declaration of
> >a belief
> >in the Christian religion."
> >
> >And later, other countries had in their constitutions the following:
> >
> >- Vermont (1786), Frame of Government, Section 9: "And each member [of the
> >legislature],
> >before he takes his seat, shall make and subscribe the following
> >declaration, viz: 'I
> >do believe in one God, the Creator and Governor of the universe, the
> >rewarder of the
> >good and punisher of the wicked. And I do acknowledge the scriptures of the
> >old and
> >new testament to be given by divine inspiration, and own and profess the
> >[Christian]
> >religion.' And no further or other religious test shall ever, hereafter, be
> >required
> >of any civil officer or magistrate in this State."
> >
> >- Tennesee (1796), Article VIII, Section II: "No person who denies the
> >being of God,
> >or a future state of rewards and punishments, shall hold any office in the
> >civil
> >department of this State."
> >
> >
> >II. Quotes from our Judicial System
> >
> >"No free government now exists in the world unless where Christianity is
> >acknowledged,
> >and is the religion of the country...Its foundations are broad and strong,
> >and deep...
> >it is the purest system of morality, the firmest auxiliary, and only stable
> >support of
> >all human laws...Christianity is part of the common law." Updegraph v.
> >Commonwealth
> >826
> >
> >In 1844 in Philadelphia, a school took an unprecedented position: it would
> >teach its
> >students morality, but not Christianity. The Court ruled it could not do
> >so-the Bible
> >and Christianity must be included: "Why may not the Bible, and especially
> >the New
> >Testament...be read and taught as divine revelation in the [schools]-its
> >general
> >precepts expounded...and its glorious principles of morality inculcated?
> >Where can
> >the purest principles of morality be learned so clearly or so perfectly as
> >from the
> >New Testament?" Vidal v Girards Executors, 1844
> >
> >
> >In 1892, the United States Supreme Court concluded that only an "absurd"
> >application
> >of the Constitution would allow a restriction on Christianity: "No purpose
> >of action
> >against religion can be imputed to any legislation, state or national,
> >because this
> >is a religious people...This is a Christian nation."1892 Churh of the Holy
> >Trinity v.
> >United States, 1892
> >
> >On blasphemy the courts have ruled: Abner Updegraph...on the 12th day of
> >December
> >[1821]...not having the fear of God before his eyes...contriving and
> >intending to
> >scandalize, and bring into disrepute, and vilify the Christian religion and
> >the
> >scriptures of truth, in the presence and hearing of several persons...did
> >unlawfully,
> >wickedly and premeditatively, despitefully, and blasphemously say...'That
> >the Holy
> >Scriptures were a mere fable: that they were a contradiction, and that
> >although they
> >contained a number of good things, yet they contained a great many lies.'
> >To the great
> >dishonor of Almighty God, to the great scandal of the profession of the
> >Christian
> >religion." Updegraph v The Commonwealth, 1824 Supreme Court of Pennsylvania
> >
> >Again, on blasphemy the courts have ruled: "The defendant was indicted...in
> >December,
> >1810, for that he did, on the 2nd day of September, 1810...wickedly,
> >maliciously, and
> >blashpemously, utter, and with a loud voice publish, in the presence and
> >hearing of
> >divers of good and Christian people, of and concerning the Christian
> >religion, and of
> >and concerning Jesus Christ, the false, scandalous, malicious, wicked and
> >blasphemous
> >words following: 'Jesus Christ was a bastard, and his mother must be a
> >whore,' in
> >contempt of the Christian religion...The defendant was tried and found
> >guilty, and
> >was sentenced by the court to be imprisoned for three months, and to pay a
> >fine of
> >$500." The People v Ruggles, 1811, Supreme Court of New York
>
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