Fwd: Re: Fwd: The Curtailment of "Mudboging"...

[sean <o2design@wsu.edu>]

Title: Fwd: Re: Fwd: The Curtailment of "Mudboging"...

No, Bill, I don't believe I did.  First, I am not condoning illegal actions.  Second, I am not suggesting this is appropriate in locations where it IS legal.

Are you missing the issues about meeting legitimate recreational needs?  Roads do not meet all the needs of OHV users.  Different rec pursuits demand different rec areas.  This is why we see the revolution in ski area design: snowboarders are a different breed and their sport demands different options.  Hence terrain parks.  They, too, were ostrisized at one time.  And they, too, illegally pursued their sport.  Finally, the industry recognized a profit was to be made.

Why marginalize OHV enthusiasts?  Why not advocate providing well-designed OHV parks and thoughtfully laid out trails?  It is acceptable to cut new MTB trails.  Scale of impacts does not mean we should design NO trails.  It means we plan for a scaled offering.

Visionaries serve the underserved has always been the impression I have had on this list.  Why not with this group?

s

 

>
> Sean:
> You missed the point.
> I have nothing against 4-wheelers cruising on established or posted
> roads.
> I have everything against 4-wheelers making their own muddy roads
> across pristine lands.
> Why should I show tolerance for those who are breaking laws and
> ravaging beautiful meadowlands for their own nasty thrills?
> BL
> sean wrote:
> > Bill, Don et al.,I am somewhat surprised
> > to see such a close-minded reaction to "alternative" outdoor
> > recreation.  If it is not hiking is it outside the realm of
> > validity?  I suspect that many of those who would outlaw or even
> > implement destructive devices to deter OHV use are the very same
> > "visionaries" who cry foul when skateboarders are told they
> > must stay off sidewalks and streetsŠwhile simultaneously being
> > provided with no alternative terrain. What happened to
> > tolerance?  where is the "vision" of developing
> > designated recreation areas?  The charge against skaters is that
> > they damage property and threaten the safety of others.  Sounds
> > like a similar charge to the one leveled at ATV's, 4x4s, etc.  So
> > why be any less open-minded and creative with this group? This is
> > not simply an issue from some far-off API story.  There is a
> > vigorous body of recreators in the Palouse who seek to use their
> > motorized vehicles.  They, like others in this billion dollar
> > market, deserve well thought out and equitable recreation areas
> > (remember equity?).  There are no such locations in within a
> > reasonable drive.  The same can hardly be said for other outdoor
> > recreation.  Want to rock climb?  Mt bike?  hike? 
> > Those and many more sports ARE provided for.  Many were once
> > marginalized, considered to be "fringe", and experienced
> > being ignored.  Any snowboarder from way back will remember those
> > days (and not very fondly). The elitism that is routinely applied
> > to OHV enthusiasts is embarrassing and smacks of hypocrisy.  Are
> > there any sports lacking "jerks"?  Do any of us not
> > find some group whose members do not generally rub us the wrong way? 
> > And are those not the groups we are most apt to avoid (and therefore
> > remain ignorant ofŠand even fearful of) and therefore to
> > misunderstand?  How does user conflict equate to a right to
> > outlaw and exclude a sport? Educating oneself about a group and
> > then helping them by providing for their needs is a far better
> > approach than ostracizing them.  Marginalizing and making enemies
> > of off-roaders has been the approach used in recent decades by those
> > wishing to protect wildlands.  Where has it gotten
> > anyone? Here's to showing true vision in the future.s ps-
> > before chanting "Hayduke, Hayduke, Hayduke!", recall that he
> > drove a 4x4 (equipped--gasp!--with a winch)Šand tossed beer cans
> > asunder. 
> > >  
> > > Visionaries:
> > >  
> > > All I can say is, "Heyduke
> > > Lives"!
> > >  
> > > I'm with you, Bill.
> > >  
> > > Don Kaag (Who loves the wilderness and
> > > despises motorized scofflaws and their illegal depredations...)
> > >  
> > > From: bill london
> > > <london@moscow.com>
> > > Date: Sat Jun 15, 2002 
> > > 11:36:22 AM US/Pacific
> > >
> > > To: Vision2020
> > > <vision2020@moscow.com>
> > > Subject: mud boggers
> > >  
> > >  
> > >     The Thursday Lewiston
> > > Tribune (6/13, page 1C) included an article
> > > about tire-piercing spikes found in mug
> > > bogs in the Pomeroy Forest
> > > Service Ranger District.  The spikes
> > > were placed illegally.  The spikes
> > > were discovered because they punctured
> > > tires on 4-wheelers that were
> > > being driven through forest meadows
> > > creating mud bogs.
> > >     The "mud-bogging"
> > > (driving through the meadows) is illegal because
> > > of the damage to water quality and to the
> > > meadows themselves.  However,
> > > the authorities involved said they were
> > > more concerned with the spikes,
> > > and considered the placing of the spikes
> > > an act of eco-terrorism.
> > >     While I do not support
> > > the vigilante justice action of placing those
> > > spikes, I certainly can relate to the
> > > emotion and anger behind it.  I
> > > have seen beautiful mountain meadows
> > > ravaged through the thoughtless and
> > > wanton destruction by 4-wheelers and
> > > motorcylcists.  In just a few
> > > minutes, the wet soils and fragile
> > > flowers of a meadow can disappear,
> > > churned to mud--which then fouls streams
> > > and invites further desecration
> > > later.
> > >     Given the
> > > impossibility of stationing guards at every meadow or
> > > catching any of the perpetrators in the
> > > act, perhaps stopping
> > > mud-bogging with spikes is not such a bad
> > > idea.  Maybe the US Forest
> > > Service should place tire-piercing spikes
> > > in areas where "mud-boggers"
> > > go for their kinky thrills.  The
> > > USFS could post plenty of warning
> > > signs.  Perhaps the potential threat
> > > to their machines would keep these
> > > scofflaws on the roads and out of the
> > > meadows.
> > >     The situation is the
> > > same as the commion practice of police placing
> > > strips of tire-piercing spikes on roads
> > > when they are trying to stop a
> > > vehicle in a chase situation.  Of
> > > course, the police do not place spike
> > > strips randomly across roads.  They
> > > use the spikes when they are trying
> > > to stop someone in a dangerous and
> > > illegal act.
> > >     Same with the spikes
> > > in the meadows.  By definition, anyone driving
> > > in the meadow is committing an illegal
> > > act.  A flat tire is better than
> > > a ravaged meadow.
> > > BL
> >   --Thanks,
> > s
> >  
> >        
> > * * * * * * * *
> >         Sean Michael
> >         .dwg

--

Thanks,
s


        * * * * * * * *
        Sean Michael
        .dwg