Re:

[ltrwritr@moscow.com (Mark Rounds)]

Folks

Darwin wrote in the 1850's.  If your intent is to judge the science behind
evolution, do read to current work on the subject and debate that.  Remember
that at that time (the 1850's) the Presbyterians, Baptists and several other
well known denominations in the sourthern US not only said slavery was OK,
they praised it as the white man's duty to educate, convert to Christianity
and bring the lesser races to civilization.  

None of these denominations say that today and many have formally apologized
for the wrong they did in that era.  These groups of people have progessed a
long way in their thinking and deserve credit for it.  

Similarly, the races of human kind are not separate species and did not
arise individually.  DNA analysis has proven that we all came from the same
very small gene pool. This is consistent with how species arise.   Science
has progressed a very long way since the 1850's and other than being the
spark for a great deal of research, Darwin's work is not all that relevant
to the modern science evolution.  Scientists who have studied this long and
hard also deserve credit for moving beyond the 1850's.

Now if your intent is to rile people up and start another round of name
calling, go right ahead.  Enjoy.

Mark Rounds




>Tom,
>
>Have you ever even read his complete work? 
>
>In the first place, you may wish Darwin had said otherwise; but he was
defending the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life. 
>
>Secondly, your committing an argumentum ad hominem abusive logical fallacy
will not win an argument. But it's a nice attempt at a diversion from fact
of what Darwin was saying.
>
>Dale
>  ----- Original Message ----- 
>  From: Tom Hansen 
>  To: vision2020@moscow.com 
>  Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 6:46 PM
>  Subject: RE: 
>
>
>  I believe that Darwinists believe in one simple concept:  Survival of the
Fittest.  It is my firmest belief that Darwin DID NOT mean to exclude any
races based on the pigment of their skin.  Simply put, "If you can withstand
the many slings and arrows that life tosses your way, you will endure.  If
not, you will not."
>
>  To interpret this any other way sprongly reflects the racial prejudices
of the interpreter.
>
>  Take care,
>
>  Tom Hansen
>    -----Original Message-----
>    From: Dale Courtney [mailto:dmcourtn@moscow.com]
>    Sent: Friday, June 14, 2002 3:20 AM
>    To: vision2020@moscow.com
>    Subject: Re: 
>
>
>    It's well known that Darwin's Origin of Species evolved from an
irredeemably racist presupposition by Darwin.
>
>    The original full title of the work is On the Origin of Species by
Means of Natural Selection, or the Preservation of Favoured Races in the
Struggle for Life.
>
>    Now, that's one title you won't learn about in our government schools!  :)
>
>    Dale
>      ----- Original Message ----- 
>      From: Douglas 
>      To: vision2020@moscow.com 
>      Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 2:12 PM
>
>
>      Dear visionaries,
>
>      In response to Melynda's post, two thoughts.
>
>      How about this? Would it be appropriate for a government school to
teach that one form of early Darwinism taught that blacks were one of the
intermediate steps between primates and full humans? Of course I don't think
that -- all of us are descended from Adam and Eve. But I am curious -- if we
all evolved out of the primordial goo, then was the process of natural
selection obligated to observe the strictures of the Civil Rights Act of
1964? Any biological reason why every branch of the humanoid fauna has to
progress at exactly the same rate? What I am trying to get up the nerve to
ask (given the Chinese fire drill earlier about coming out in the classroom)
is this: is there any scientific reason anyone can give me to show that
Darwinism is not necessarily, irredeemably racist?
>
>      And in response to the invitation, "knock yourself out," I appreciate
that very much. Just what we have been doing, and it is taking its toll. In
part it works so well because tax-funded schools can't really understand how
competition works.
>
>      P.S. is my use of "Chinese fire drill" illegal yet? If so, I repent
in dust and ashes, and promise to report to my Purity of Thought Council
meeting first thing.
>
>      Keeping the fun in fundamentalist,
>
>      Douglas Wilson
>
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><DIV>Tom,</DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
><DIV>Have you ever even read his complete work? </DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
><DIV>In the first place, you may wish Darwin had said otherwise; but he was 
>defending <EM><U>the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for 
>Life</U></EM>. </DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
><DIV>Secondly, your committing an <EM>argumentum ad hominem</EM> abusive
logical 
>fallacy will not win an argument. But it's a nice attempt at a diversion from 
>fact of what Darwin was saying.</DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
><DIV>Dale</DIV>
><BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr 
>style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px;
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
>  <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
>  <DIV 
>  style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color:
black"><B>From:</B> 
>  <A title=thansen@moscow.com href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com">Tom Hansen</A> 
>  </DIV>
>  <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=vision2020@moscow.com 
>  href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A> </DIV>
>  <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, June 13, 2002 6:46 
>  PM</DIV>
>  <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: </DIV>
>  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><BR></DIV>
>  <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=457374022-13062002>I believe
that 
>  Darwinists believe in one simple concept:&nbsp; Survival of the
Fittest.&nbsp; 
>  It is my firmest belief that Darwin DID NOT mean to exclude any races
based on 
>  the pigment of their skin.&nbsp; Simply put, "If you can withstand the many 
>  slings and arrows that life tosses your way, you will endure.&nbsp; If not, 
>  you will not."</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
>  <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
>  class=457374022-13062002></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
>  <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=457374022-13062002>To interpret 
>  this any other way sprongly reflects the racial prejudices of the 
>  interpreter.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
>  <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
>  class=457374022-13062002></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
>  <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=457374022-13062002>Take 
>  care,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
>  <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
>  class=457374022-13062002></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
>  <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=457374022-13062002>Tom 
>  Hansen</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
>  <BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
>    <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma 
>    size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Dale Courtney 
>    [mailto:dmcourtn@moscow.com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, June 14, 2002 3:20 
>    AM<BR><B>To:</B> vision2020@moscow.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: 
>    <BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
>    <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>It's well known that Darwin's&nbsp;<EM>Origin 
>    of Species</EM>&nbsp;evolved from an irredeemably&nbsp;racist
presupposition 
>    by Darwin.</FONT></DIV>
>    <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
>    <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The original full title of the work is <EM>On 
>    the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or <U>the
Preservation 
>    of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life</U>.</EM></FONT></DIV>
>    <DIV><EM><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT></EM>&nbsp;</DIV>
>    <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Now, that's one title you <U>won't</U> learn 
>    about in our government schools!&nbsp; :)<BR></FONT></DIV>
>    <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Dale</FONT></DIV>
>    <BLOCKQUOTE 
>    style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px;
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
>      <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
>      <DIV 
>      style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color:
black"><B>From:</B> 
>      <A title=dougwils@moscow.com
href="mailto:dougwils@moscow.com">Douglas</A> 
>      </DIV>
>      <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=vision2020@moscow.com 
>      href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A> </DIV>
>      <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, June 13, 2002 2:12 
>      PM</DIV>
>      <DIV><BR></DIV>Dear visionaries,<BR><BR>In response to Melynda's
post, two 
>      thoughts.<BR><BR>How about this? Would it be appropriate for a
government 
>      school to teach that one form of early Darwinism taught that blacks were 
>      one of the intermediate steps between primates and full humans? Of
course 
>      I don't think that -- all of us are descended from Adam and Eve. But
I am 
>      curious -- if we all evolved out of the primordial goo, then was the 
>      process of natural selection obligated to observe the strictures of the 
>      Civil Rights Act of 1964? Any <I>biological </I>reason why every
branch of 
>      the humanoid fauna has to progress at exactly the same rate? What I am 
>      trying to get up the nerve to ask (given the Chinese fire drill earlier 
>      about coming out in the classroom) is this: is there any <I>scientific 
>      </I>reason anyone can give me to show that Darwinism is not necessarily, 
>      irredeemably racist?<BR><BR>And in response to the invitation, "knock 
>      yourself out," I appreciate that very much. Just what we have been
doing, 
>      and it is taking its toll. In part it works so well because tax-funded 
>      schools can't really understand how competition works.<BR><BR>P.S. is my 
>      use of "Chinese fire drill" illegal yet? If so, I repent in dust and 
>      ashes, and promise to report to my Purity of Thought Council meeting
first 
>      thing.<BR><BR>Keeping the <I>fun </I>in fundamentalist,<BR><BR>Douglas 
>      Wilson<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
>