RE: Our kickin' sitchyashun

["Alan Partridge" <apartridge@turbonet.com>]

No clarification is necessary. What does the whole of society feel is
good for society? Why does it feel godless? Because society IS godless.
There is no monarchy to rule by fear of people with a Divine Right, just
a nepotistic governing system that has no thought but for the gain of
individuals as opposed to gain of the whole. This isn't to say that I
advocate one belief system or system of government, I just say that
within the dictates of our belief systems, there exists fundamental
principles that are incompatible with one another on some level. This
incompatibility causes instability between social groups, especially
when society tries to force these people together through simple
awareness. Instant change is impossible. We know that society does not
move toward change. Instead, it moves toward homogeneity.

Now, I hear you saying, "but don't social groups that consist of mixed
cultures on a daily basis generally get along well with one another?"
The answer is, "yes". The reason for this is that these people haven't
grown from their dislikes of people different from themselves, they have
learned to displace this tension with individualistic opinion, causing
them to deal with people on a case-by-case basis. They have learned that
it is in their vested interest for survival if they have a problem with
others' beliefs to just not say anything. These people have to deal with
one another to get on with their lives.

On to the matter discussed earlier: Personally, if I owned a restaurant
and several individuals arrived who happened to be followers of the
Aryan "movement", I would welcome them, as I welcome others, with equal
distaste and suspicion. If they fill the room with raucous behaviour and
inappropriate comments to myself or other patrons, they will be forced
out. It's that simple. We find that within our society we need to censor
OURSELVES. I don't care if the person I know on a bus has a problem with
my particular socio-economic class; as long as he doesn't express his or
her feelings to that effect, I'm better off. In our society, Pro-Aryan
groups have fundamental beliefs that are incompatible with society,
therefore they are outcast. It's that simple. If Aryans wish to coexist
with the whole of society, perhaps they should pipe down and learn to
coexist with those that the government would force them to recognize as
their peers.

It's either trust that people will behave themselves, or mandatory mind
control that will move us forward. Then again, everyone needs to make
that choice sometime in their lives.

I'm Alan Partridge, not to be confused with a lawyer.
-A non-representative of the BBC or its affiliates, at home or abroad

-----Original Message-----
From: eevans@moscow.com [mailto:eevans@moscow.com] 
Sent: Friday, September 27, 2002 11:50 AM
To: Alan Partridge
Subject: RE: Our kickin' sitchyashun

Alan,

Maybe if I clarify my position it will help.

First, I'm not pro-aryan. If I owned a diner and an aryan came in, I
would kick 
him out, just on priciple, because aryanism is a wicked religion and I
won't 
stand for it on my private property. But could I do this?

Now, there are people who claim there should be equal access and
tolerance for 
all religions. I don't hold to this, and obviously, neither do you. If
you 
support booting an aryan (I'm assuming here, am I right?), but not a
jew, then 
you've made the claim that not all religions are equal, nor do the
followers 
have a right to equal access. Again, I'd agree.

My question is this. Is religious discrimination legal? With all the
laywers on 
vision2020, I'm suprised noone has popped in with the real answer.

If it is, then who decides which religion goes or stays? The property
owner, 
the state, or the local mob? If it's not legal, those folks in Sandpoint
were 
in the wrong, legally.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,
-Ed Evans

> You've taunted us with the same dread and morbid curiosity as if we
saw
> a rabbit grazing on a patch of grass between a set of railroad tracks
> while a train charges from the distance, and the rabbit has leapt well
> out of the path. The situation leaves us all feeling that the rabbit
let
> us down. Why should we feel poorly for an experiment that went so
wrong
> in its development phase? I think that all of us who feel upset that
> eevans won't satisfy this curiosity in us should let this topic go. I
> did try to use the voice of reason. 
> 
> I think you're trying to be clever. When you go to work or home or
> whatever you do, you probably think that your mates will say "how
> insightful", or "we are better people" but in actual fact, there will
be
> a rather long and embarrassed silence.
> 
> I'm Alan Partridge,
> -A non-representative of the BBC or its affiliates, at home or abroad
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: eevans@moscow.com [mailto:eevans@moscow.com] 
> Sent: Friday, September 27, 2002 8:00 AM
> To: vision2020@moscow.com
> Subject: RE: Our kickin' sitchyashun
> 
> Alan Partridge wrote:
> > So if I read between the lines properly...
> 
> Eh? You did not read between the lines properly. At all. Not even a
> little. You 
> did demonstrate an amazing ability to make things up about people you
> don't 
> know. I don't mind if you battle against your own inventions, just
don't
> drag 
> me into it.
> 
> Anyway, you _did_ bristle against my little thought experiment (quite
a
> lot!). 
> 
> So here it is again in the generalized form. A scenerio to think
about,
> that I 
> have no intention to act out.
> 
> What if a bunch of guys heckled a fellow out of a diner because they
> disagreed 
> with his religion? Legal? Intolerant?
> 
> <snnnnnnnnnip>
> 
> Cheers,
> -Ed Evans
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Ed [mailto:eevans@moscow.com] 
> > Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 6:46 PM
> > To: vision2020@moscow.com
> > Subject: Re: Our kickin' sitchyashun
> > 
> > I don't know about that.. What if a bunch of Aryans heckled a Jewish
> guy
> > out 
> > of a diner? Legal? Maybe so.
> > 
> > Cheers,
> > -Ed Evans
> > 
> > On Thursday 26 September 2002 17:27, Sunil Ramalingam wrote:
> > > Lucy,
> > > If you look to Idaho Code 67-5902(5) for the definition of person,
> it
> > reads
> > > "Person" includes an individual, association, corporation, joint
> > > apprenticeship committee, joint-stock company, labor union, legal
> > > representative, mutual company, partnership, any other legal or
> > commercial
> > > entity, the state, or any governmental entity or agency;
> > >
> > > I believe the Act applies to employers and proprietors, not
> > individuals
> > > such as the diners in a restaurant.  While in the Bertollini
example
> > the
> > > diners were rude, I doubt they are liable under the Act.
> > >
> > > However, I urge you not to take my word for this, and should you
> > choose to
> > > heckle a fellow diner, do not claim that I said it would be okay.
> > This is
> > > just an estimate, and your results may vary.
> > >
> > > Sunil Ramalingam
> > >
> > > From: "Lucy Zoe" <lucyzoe@moscow.com>
> > >
> > > >Reply-To: <lucyzoe@moscow.com>
> > > >To: <vision2020@moscow.com>
> > > >Subject: RE: Our kickin' sitchyashun
> > > >Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 16:28:13 -0700
> > > >
> > > >Ron wrote:
> > > >As I understand it, the proprietor didn't evict him-- the other
> > diners
> > > >just
> > > >gave him a hard time verbally until he left (exercised their free
> > > >speech?).
> > > >
> > > >Lucy says:
> > > >You'll notice Ron, that the ACT doesn't say For a *proprietor,*
> > > >it says For a *person.*  Therefore, it doesn't really make a
> > difference
> > > >*who* denies another individual according to the Act.
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
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> > 
> 
> 
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