vision2020
Re: Idaho sales tax exemptions
See Jack Wenders' excellent articles:
- Why public school teachers are over-paid
(http://www.uidaho.edu/~jwenders/Essays%20In%20Persuasion/New2/Teacher_Comp_
Whole.pdf <http://www.uidaho.edu/~jwenders/Essays In
Persuasion/New2/Teacher_Comp_Whole.pdf> )
- The Teacher's Salary Grid
(http://www.uidaho.edu/~jwenders/Essays%20In%20Persuasion/New2/The_GridUnion
_Review.pdf <http://www.uidaho.edu/~jwenders/Essays In
Persuasion/New2/The_GridUnion_Review.pdf> )
- Teacher's Pay
(http://www.uidaho.edu/~jwenders/Essays%20In%20Persuasion/4/B-TEACHERS__PAY-
84(MSW).pdf <http://www.uidaho.edu/~jwenders/Essays In
Persuasion/4/B-TEACHERS__PAY-84(MSW).pdf> )
- Teacher Supply and Demand
(http://www.uidaho.edu/~jwenders/Essays%20In%20Persuasion/New/Teacher_Supply
_and_Demand.pdf) <http://www.uidaho.edu/~jwenders/Essays In
Persuasion/New/Teacher_Supply_and_Demand.pdf)>
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HI Dale,<BR>
<BR>
I don't have the time to go to the library to read the other cites, but the=
re's plenty of information in Wenders' cites to talk about.<BR>
<BR>
Wenders' papers (I read three of them) primarily attack the NEA/IEA salary =
grid that pays starting teachers much less than established teachers. =
The fact still remains that starting teachers make about 1/2 of what one of =
my engineering grads make. Where's the incentive to bring bright young=
minds into the field?<BR>
<BR>
I think it's also profoundly irrelevant, if one is a free-market thinker, t=
o compare what a teacher makes to what someone else locally, in a small comm=
unity (say a salesperson at a local store) makes. It might make sense =
from a social perspective, but that's not free-market economics. One h=
as to look at what competing classes of professionals make, and even establi=
shed teachers fare poorly compared to starting professionals in other fields=
.<BR>
<BR>
One of the primary, implied points of Wenders' work actually backs up my ow=
n practical experience-- that starting pay is too low to attract the most ta=
lented individuals to the profession. My anecdotal evidence is my own =
wife-- Kelley. Kelley was named the top senior in her education class =
at the U of I. She also has an engineering degree, so she would be a p=
rime professional to attract to the field, and yes, she was a successful eng=
ineer before she stopped work to have our two boys. She loves kids, an=
d is excellent in working with them. However, with one semester left i=
n her education, and potentially one year of student teaching in front of he=
r, she is having serious reservations about completing her degree. It =
will cost us about $3K in day care just for her to complete her final semest=
er, as well as tuition-- not calculating in the emotional issues of being se=
parated from our 2 and 4 year old. After that, there is the potential =
for either a 1/2 year or 1 year free labor/student teaching (with incumbent =
daycare costs, and the opportunity cost of not doing something else). =
All this for a job that will pay less than $22K. We're leaning toward =
just buying more life insurance in case I get hit by a truck-- in the end it=
will be cheaper and provide us with more financial security!<BR>
<BR>
One thing that I find fascinating in Wenders work is the obsession with the=
fact that teachers have the summers off. There are built-in assumptio=
ns there that teachers ought to be able to fill the remaining three months w=
ith work, and that the labor market is infinitely elastic, and there is no s=
tructural unemployment caused by the profession. While there's no ques=
tion that the time off is a benefit, what I see is that being a teacher puts=
you in competition with other part-time work because of the low pay for peo=
ple that are professionals. Looking at my wife's case, she's consideri=
ng taking courses in database mgmt., where she could work 10-20 hrs./week an=
d make more than a teacher. While this is anecdotal, I think it is ill=
ustrative. The real professionals that might make a substantial differ=
ence in the classroom are limited to those seeking part-time work. Tho=
se viewing solely as a full-time occupation are competing against others in =
that full-time wage class, which is beneath full-time log truck driver in th=
ese parts. IIRC, log truck drivers make around $50K/yr.<BR>
<BR>
This interpretation also bolsters another of Wenders' observations-- that t=
he rate of teachers leaving the profession is very low-- basically no mobili=
ty outward once teachers have started. The part-time/full-time thesis =
fits this to a tee. Part-time competitors aren't leaving because they =
always viewed the job as secondary income, and value free time highly.  =
;Full-time folks aren't leaving because teaching is the best job they can ge=
t.<BR>
<BR>
What this leads to is the only way you can really change teacher quality is=
to offer competitive entry-level professional salaries, over a long-enough =
time to change the characteristics of the entry pool. And that's not l=
ikely to happen. Instead, what we're seeing from legislators is increa=
sed inspection of the entry pool (extension of student teaching to 1 year , =
more courses, more CE credits). And any manufacturing engineer will te=
ll you that's the recipe for disaster. You can't inspect quality into =
the product.<BR>
<BR>
What I'd really be interested in seeing is how students from affluent neigh=
borhoods, where teachers are better paid (actually paid a competitive profes=
sional wage), actually do much worse than students from poverty-stricken nei=
ghborhoods. Now that would be interesting. Until then, your poin=
t is not proven.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Chuck Pezeshki<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<B>From: </B>"Dale Courtney" <dmcourtn@moscow.com><BR>
<B>Date: </B>Fri, 2 Aug 2002 07:40:46 -0700<BR>
<B>To: </B><vision2020@moscow.com><BR>
<B>Cc: </B>"Kelley Racicot" <kelley@racicot.org>, "Tro=
y Merrill" <troy1@moscow.com><BR>
<B>Subject: </B>Re: Idaho sales tax exemptions<BR>
<B>Resent-From: </B>vision2020@moscow.com<BR>
<B>Resent-Date: </B>Fri, 2 Aug 2002 07:46:16 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
<BR>
<FONT SIZE=3D"2"><FONT FACE=3D"Arial">See Jack Wenders' excellent articles: <BR=
>
- Why public school teachers are over-paid (<FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF"><U>http:/=
/www.uidaho.edu/~jwenders/Essays%20In%20Persuasion/New2/Teacher_Comp_Whole.p=
df</U></FONT> <<FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF"><U>http://www.uidaho.edu/~jwenders/E=
ssays</U></FONT> In Persuasion/New2/Teacher_Comp_Whole.pdf> )<BR>
- The Teacher's Salary Grid (<FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF"><U>http://www.uidaho.edu=
/~jwenders/Essays%20In%20Persuasion/New2/The_GridUnion_Review.pdf</U></FONT>=
<<FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF"><U>http://www.uidaho.edu/~jwenders/Essays</U></FO=
NT> In Persuasion/New2/The_GridUnion_Review.pdf> )<BR>
- Teacher's Pay (<FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF"><U>http://www.uidaho.edu/~jwenders/E=
ssays%20In%20Persuasion/4/B-TEACHERS__PAY-84(MSW</U></FONT>).pdf <<FONT C=
OLOR=3D"#0000FF"><U>http://www.uidaho.edu/~jwenders/Essays</U></FONT> In Persu=
asion/4/B-TEACHERS__PAY-84(MSW).pdf> )<BR>
- Teacher Supply and Demand (<FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF"><U>http://www.uidaho.edu=
/~jwenders/Essays%20In%20Persuasion/New/Teacher_Supply_and_Demand.pdf</U></F=
ONT>) <<FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF"><U>http://www.uidaho.edu/~jwenders/Essays</U=
></FONT> In Persuasion/New/Teacher_Supply_and_Demand.pdf)> <BR>
</FONT></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><FONT SIZE=3D"2"><FONT FACE=3D"Arial"><BR>
</FONT></FONT>
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