Fw: vision2020-digest Digest V01 #250

["Mike Rush" <mike.rush@veriomail.com>]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Rush" <mike.rush@veriomail.com>
To: "Bob Hoffmann" <escape@alt-escape.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2001 7:06 PM
Subject: Re: vision2020-digest Digest V01 #250


> To understand the statement "I am a Christian, in the only sense He wished
> any one to be", you must consider how Christ wanted men to be Christian.
He
> wanted man to understand He was the Son of God, and He died for our sins.
> There is no other sense that Jesus, and by extension throught his own
> writings, Jefferson, would want a Christian to be.
>
> There are Three who were present in the beginning: The Father, Jesus The
> Son, and The Holy Spirit; and These Three are One God. (1 John 5:7)
>
> Mike Rush
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bob Hoffmann" <escape@alt-escape.com>
> To: "Mike Rush" <mike.rush@veriomail.com>
> Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2001 5:24 PM
> Subject: Re: vision2020-digest Digest V01 #250
>
>
> > Mike,
> >
> > Reading your comments demonstrates to me how people can read the
identical
> > text, but have totally different interpretations:
> >
> > I am a Christian, in the only sense he wished any one to be;
> > sincerely attached to his doctrines, in preference to all others;
> ascribing
> > to himself every human excellence; & believing he never claimed any
other.
> >
> > This could easily mean that Jesus was a great human being, but nothing
> > more--no deity, no Son of God, but merely (in his own words), "Son of
> > Man."  And never claiming any other excellence.  If it makes one
Christian
> > to believe Christ was an exemplary human being, albeit not the son of
God,
> > then I agree, Jefferson was a Christian.
> >
> > At 06:04 PM 10/19/2001 -0700, you wrote:
> > >I wish people would read the writings of the people whom they would
> attach
> > >labels.  This is the first part of a letter written by Thomas Jefferson
> to
> > >Benjamin Rush dated  April 21, 1803.  In it Jefferson, in no uncertain
> > >terms, describes himself as a Christian who subscribes "to the genuine
> > >precepts of Jesus himself ... in the only sense he (Jesus) wished any
one
> to
> > >be".
> > >
> > >Please also note his comment on the "anti-Christian system imputed upon
> me
> > >by others", basically saying all those who refered to him as
> anti-Christian
> > >were wrong.
> > >
> > >"Washington, Apr 21, 1803.
> > >"Dear Sir,--In some of the delightful conversations with you, in the
> > >evenings of 1798--99, and which served as an anodyne to the afflictions
> of
> > >the crisis through which our country was then laboring, the Christian
> > >religion was sometimes our topic; and I then promised you, that one day
> or
> > >other, I would give you my views of it. They are the result of a life
of
> > >inquiry & reflection, and very different from that anti-Christian
system
> > >imputed to me by those who know nothing of my opinions. To the
> corruptions
> > >of Christianity I am indeed opposed; but not to the genuine precepts of
> > >Jesus himself. I am a Christian, in the only sense he wished any one to
> be;
> > >sincerely attached to his doctrines, in preference to all others;
> ascribing
> > >to himself every human excellence; & believing he never claimed any
> other.
> > >
> > >You can READ the full text and see an image of the original document at
> > >http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/mtjhtml/mtjhome.html
> > >
> > >Any other labels you would like to attach to Jefferson?
> > >
> > >Mike Rush
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: <bainbridge@moscow.com>
> > >To: "Bob Hoffmann" <escape@alt-escape.com>; <vision2020@moscow.com>
> > >Sent: Friday, October 19, 2001 6:27 AM
> > >Subject: Re: vision2020-digest Digest V01 #250
> > >
> > >
> > > > Actually, it is my understanding that Jefferson was a deist - not an
> > >atheist.
> > > > Chris
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >  At 07:03 PM 10/18/2001 -0700, you wrote:
> > > > > >Why do you think they stated " We hold these truths to be
> self-evident,
> > >that
> > > > > >all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator
> with
> > > > > >certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty
and
> the
> > > > > >pursuit of Happiness." in the Declaration of Independance?
> > > > >
> > > > > The Declaration of Independence is among the most sacred of
American
> > > > > documents.  However, it has no bearing in law, except for the fact
> that
> > >we
> > > > > are no longer a colony of England.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thomas Jefferson--author of the Declaration of Independence--was
> widely
> > > > > held to be an atheist.  This son of the Enlightenment may have
> written
> > > > > those words, but I have never heard alleged that he, one of the
> greatest
> > >of
> > > > > our Founding Fathers, was Christian.  If this Creator he spoke of
> was
> > > > > (tongue in cheek) a Shinto deity, does that mean we should all
> convert
> > >to
> > > > > an archaic Japanese religion?
> > > > >
> > > > > I think not.
> > > > >
> > > > > Bob Hoffmann
> > > > > 846 Mabelle St.
> > > > > Moscow, ID  83843
> > > > >
> > > > > Tel: 208 883-0642
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ---------------------------------------------
> > > > This message was sent by First Step Internet.
> > > >            http://www.fsr.net/
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> > Bob Hoffmann
> > 846 Mabelle St.
> > Moscow, ID  83843
> >
> > Tel: 208 883-0642
> >
>