RE: vision2020-digest Digest V01 #250

["Shahab Mesbah" <meteor2@moscow.com>]

Dear friends,

One of the things I love about this forum is that I never stop learning from
it. Since it is a free forum of discussion it is often the instrument by
which we find out (in a public way) our misconceptions and lack of
knowledge. It has always been my opinion that those who never make mistakes
are incapable of thought and reasoning. It is through our mistakes that we
learn the lessons that bring us wisdom and True understanding. In that path
we are all students and teachers of various concepts and topics so it is
incumbent upon us to teach in the utmost spirit of love and kindness to
avoid stifling of the fire of curiosity and free discussion. There are many
ways to correct one another... the most effective is the way of genuine
interest to help each other gain a greater understanding of the facts. We
must not forget why we are here. We must not forget to consider our words
carefully. Freedom is precious and fragile... with freedom rests the
responsibility to be considerate of others. I hope we can agree to not
attack one another... we can help understanding fare more with kindness.

"Your brother in arms"
Shahab...


-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Rush [mailto:mike.rush@veriomail.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2001 7:03 PM
To: Earth Life; vision2020@moscow.com
Subject: Re: vision2020-digest Digest V01 #250

You are soooo wrong!!

The founding fathers knew exactly the place of religion in public life...It
was the center of the moral leadership which they expoused.

Why do you think they stated " We hold these truths to be self-evident, that
all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with
certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the
pursuit of Happiness." in the Declaration of Independance?  The Creator
(God) endowed unalienable Rights (given by God).  If they were given by man,
man could take them away... but man can't because he isn't God.  These men
knew exactly where the power of thier rights came from.

Your statement...'This seems a contradiction to the "separation of church
and state" ammendment to the Constitution' just shows how little you know
about your OWN Constitution.  I would like you to tell me where in the
United States Constitution these words appear...They dont!!

Please refrain from stating that seperation of church and state is in the
Constituion.  The Consitition does have a non-establishment clause in
article I ( which I will include for you ).

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an ->establishment<- of religion, or
prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech,
or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to
petition the government for a redress of grievances.

These men did not want a state sponsored religion to be corrupted by the
power of government.  They wanted the religion they practiced to be based on
the Book they knew, and quoted often in personal writings ( the Bible if you
didn't know).

Please, in the future, at lease READ the Constitution before you determine
the constitutionality of anything............


Mike Rush


----- Original Message -----
From: "Earth Life" <onewildearth@hotmail.com>
To: <vision2020@moscow.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2001 9:20 AM
Subject: Re: vision2020-digest Digest V01 #250


> America is indeeed a melting pot of cultures, ideas, languages, food,
music,
> political ideologies, religions and other things that make us diverse.
> America's "culture" is influenced by all Americans.  It is not corporate.
> It is not consumerism.  It is not your way or my way.  It is Freedom and
the
> ability to choose the lifestyle most suited for the individual.  There
> certainly are laws which attempt to restrict a person's personal life
> choices, but they are made by people who are unaccepting of other people's
> point of view.
> English is our national language, but it does not mean others can not
speak
> spanish, russian or martian.
> Our constitution has given us unalianable rights.  Free speech, the right
to
> assemble and the separation of church and state are crucial for insuring
> that Americans have the freedom to not comform to supposed religious
> foundings.
> We are not a Christian nation.  God means many things to many people.  A
> person may believe in God, but that does not mean that person is
Christian.
> It does seem odd to me that many of our national identities (money,
national
> athem) contain the word "God" in them.  This seems a contradiction to the
> "separation of church and state" ammendment to the Constitution.  That is,
> it seems unconstitutional.  Thus the controversy over school prayer and
the
> like.  If this issue was not important, I doubt the founders of America
> would have included that ammendment in the Constitution.  But obviously
they
> saw the importance of keeping religion out of government.  Perhaps
religious
> or moral views are imposible to separate from political leanings, but it
is
> important to be aware of the fact that our founders specified the desire
to
> keep religion out of politics.
> In my opinion, we cannot aspouse to be a free and democratic country if
our
> policies limit the freedom people have in regards to lifestyle choices.
As
> long as that person is not hurting another, that person should be allowed
> that freedom.
> We all have our ideas of what it means to be an American.  Stand up for
your
> beliefs, but don't force them on another person.  If someone agrees with
> what you say, it's probably because they appreciate your lifestyle, not
> because they are made to conform.
>
> Garrett Clevenger
>
> "What are we doing to our Home?!:("
>
>
>
> >From: vision2020-digest-request@moscow.com
> >Reply-To: vision2020@moscow.com
> >To: vision2020-digest@moscow.com
> >Subject: vision2020-digest Digest V01 #250
> >Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 18:38:28 -0700 (PDT)
> >
> ><< message2.txt >>
> ><< message4.txt >>
>
>
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