RE: The Truth!

["Shahab Mesbah" <meteor2@moscow.com>]

I cannot disagree with this. Our family has gone down hill. The high stress
and the attention to material goods and instant gratification have given
rise to divorce. This in turn has created a vicious cycle of mistrust and
commitment problems in children, which as they turn adults affects their
marital relationships.

I am not insinuating that we are improving in every way... in fact I
specifically focused on some of the ways that we are better off. It is true
that government agencies have become useless or even detrimental in many
ways. But on the other hand in the old days children were really abused (in
many cases). So it is true that we have to improve the system... but now at
least we have a system to try to combat abuse. We have to work diligently to
improve our society and world. It is useless to sit around and talk about
how great the good old days were. The nostalgia conveniently forgets the
ugly dirt. It is like the Norman Rockwell pictures... all swell!! I am not
suggesting that the old days were all bad either. In fact I wish we were
more polite with each other... but I loath covering the ugly truth with a
glaze of nostalgia or just ignore the problems because "we do not talk about
such things" attitude of our grand parents. I am sorry if it is
disrespectful to some but seeing a wrong and not trying to prevent it is the
same as committing the act.

Your brother in arms,

Shahab...

-----Original Message-----
From: LuJane - Eagle [mailto:lujane@lataheagle.com]
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 7:36 AM
To: Vision2020 Listserver
Subject: Re: The Truth!

I am proud of this country and the strides we have made in many, many areas
including racism, equality for women... on and on... however, there is one
area that we seem to have declined and this area is major to the foundation
of this country. It is the family. Travis has said he'd like to go back to
the good ol' days and in the sense of the "family" I agree. The loyalty and
unity was much better. Children knew where they belonged. They were not
encouraged to be the family policeman and report perceived problems. It was
not perfect then by any means and there was a lot abuse that needed curbed.
But there isn't a lot of loyalty or unity left today (yes there are
acceptions). Children are taught from the time they enter school to report
and tattle on their parents. Children begin searching and the respect begins
to wain. How did this happen? There are a lot of theories such as the
women's movement causing women to be discontent. Other theories exist as
well. One major reason, in my opinion, for the decay of the family unit is
the organization that exists to protect children... don't attack me yet... I
AGREE with protecting children but this organization called Child Protective
Services or "child savers" is motivated by greed and money more than their
desire to protect the child. Each time they remove a child from a home they
are given thousands in federal dollars as "reward" to further their
"services". This needs to be changed and they need to be rewarded when they
find a family in trouble and give service to that family rather than tear
them apart. The news is full of excesses of CPS with the Wenatchee
witch-hunts at the top of the horrifying list. Parents are guilty before
proven innocent in these people's eyes. They enter a home with preconceived
notions most times because they are conditioned that way. The childsavers
have created a society of paranoia. They tell school workers, counselors,
professional people that if they don't report suspected child abuse they can
lose their jobs and be prosecuted. One school counselor told me she reports
everything then she doesn't have to worry. CPS is so busy chasing these
reports, the majority of which are unfounded, they have no time to take care
of the cases that are truly in need of their attention.

I could go on and on here but suffice it to say that this governmental body
is structured backwards if its goal is to support and keep families
together. The foundation of this country rests on the backs of the family
unit, in my opinion, and the breakdown is horrific.



----- Original Message -----
From: Shahab Mesbah <meteor2@moscow.com>
To: Vision2020 Listserver <vision2020@moscow.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 8:14 AM
Subject: RE: The Truth!


> Dearest friends,
>
> Well... I think this is sad! In this great country with all the resources
we
> have to put each other in little stereotypical cubby holes like "liberal"
> and "Conservative" or "Republican" and "Democrat". It is sad that some of
us
> live on prejudice and are too blind to see it. It is sad that we refuse to
> see the truth because we refuse to open our eyes. It is sad that we have
> been trained to not see with our own eyes but are willing to let others
tell
> us what to think.
>
> The fact is that we are not morally decaying. In fact we are much more
moral
> now than before in many ways. It was moral decay that allowed our
ancestors
> to rape and pillage the original inhabitants of this country. It was moral
> decay that caused slavery. It is this ugly and most challenging past that
we
> are trying to overcome.
>
> This country has been built on very ugly foundation. We have destroyed
much
> that was special about this place and at out current rate will leave our
> children a legacy of corruption and selfish gluttony just like our parents
> and their parents before them. At least now most of us are not sticking
our
> heads in the sand and making believe that things are all wonderful. Now we
> have logic and truth at our disposal.
>
> The American mythology is strong... for years we hid the ugliness. Well...
> even this carpet cannot hide any more dirt! Be prepared to pull your head
> out and see the Truth. We have manipulated and raped the world just as the
> "great" European countries (England, Spain, Portugal) did a couple of
> hundred years ago. We have enslaved the whole world so we can be lazy and
> gluttonous... this is the Truth.
>
> A day will come when United States of America will be the moral leader of
> the world... that day has not come yet. Before we get there we will taste
> the humility of Truth and face our shortcomings and eliminate arrogance
and
> "the most challenging issue" racism and prejudice.
>
> Your brother in arms, and proud to be an outsider!
>
> Shahab...
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Travis & Julie Tonn [mailto:vart@turbonet.com]
> Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 10:14 PM
> To: Steve Cooke
> Cc: Vision2020 Listserver
> Subject: Re: The Truth!
>
> It is entirely predictable and sad that whenever someone attempts to point
> out how much our society has fallen into moral decay in the last few
> decades, those best described as "liberal" feel the need to deride the
more
> conservative America.  Yes, there were economic problems, yes, there was
> more overt racism, yes, there was more disease, suffering, etc.  But,
there
> weren't drive-by shootings, There weren't babies dumped in trash bins,
there
> wasn't Marilyn Manson, there weren't school shootings, people respected
> their elders, they didn't need to install car alarms, or lock their doors
at
> night.  Why can't we wise up as a society and learn from the past?  Why
> can't people with such supposedly "open" minds look to the past and find
out
> what worked and what didn't??  Why do they feel the need to seek out and
> criticize everything that was negative?  We should learn to embrace the
good
> qualities of our post-war American culture and seek to implement them in
> today's dysfunctional and politically correct cultural chaos.  Why do so
> many people that are supposedly educated and "compassionate" have to be so
> bitter and spiteful towards a time when life, for the most part, was less
> stressful and safer?
>
> Travis Tonn
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Cooke" <scooke@uidaho.edu>
> To: "Travis & Julie Tonn" <vart@turbonet.com>
> Cc: "Vision2020 Listserver" <vision2020@moscow.com>
> Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 8:13 AM
> Subject: RE: The Truth!
>
>
> >
> > Travis,
> > The early 20th century US was a time of wide spread KKK activities, jim
> crow
> > was the law, and lynching were common place in the South. Businesses
> > regularly used paid goon squads to beat and kill striking workers.
> > Internationally, it was a time Fascism, Communism, Imperialism, and the
> > introduction of the modern style of total warfare including the use of
> nerve
> > gas and attacks on unarmed civilians. It was also the time of wildly
> > fluctuating economic swings w/ extended depressions and hyper-inflation.
> > These are the "good old days?" I wonder.
> > Steve Cooke
> >
> >  -----Original Message-----t
> > From: Travis & Julie Tonn [mailto:vart@turbonet.com]
> > Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2001 5:34 PM
> > To: Moscow
> > Subject: Fw: The Truth!
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >
> >
> >
> > > >Return-Path: <tip55@magiclink.com>
> > > >From: "T.L. Tipton" <tip55@magiclink.com>
> > > >To: <Undisclosed-Recipient:;>
> > > >Subject: The Truth!
> > > >Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 12:50:14 -0700
> > > >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
> > > >X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >One evening a boy was talking to his grandfather about current
events.
> > He
> > > >asked what he thought about the shootings at schools, the computer
age,
> > and
> > > >just things in general.
> > > >
> > > >The granddad replied, "Well, let me think a minute...I was born
before
> > > >television, penicillin, polio shots, frozen foods, Xerox, contact
> lenses,
> > > >Frisbees and the pill. There weren't things like radar, credit cards,
> > laser
> > > >beams or ball-point pens. Man had not invented pantyhose,
dishwashers,
> > > >clothes dryers, electric blankets, air
> > > >conditioners, and he hadn't walked on the moon.
> > > >
> > > >Your Mom and I got married first -- then lived together.  Every
family
> > had a
> > > >father and a mother, and every boy over 14 had a rifle that his dad
> > taught
> > > >him how to use and
> > > >respect.
> > > >
> > > >Until I was 25, I called every man older than I, 'Sir' -- and after I
> > turned
> > > >25, I still called policemen and every man with a title, 'Sir.'  In
our
> > > >time, closets were for clothes -- not for 'coming out of.'  Sundays
> were
> > set
> > > >aside for going to church as a family, helping those in need, and
just
> > > >visiting with family or neighbors.
> > > >
> > > >We were before gay-rights, computer-dating, dual careers, daycare
> > centers,
> > > >and group therapy.  Our lives were governed by the Ten Commandments,
> good
> > > >judgment, and common sense.
> > > >
> > > >We were taught to know the difference between right and wrong and to
> > stand
> > > >up and take responsibility for our actions.  Serving your country was
a
> > > >privilege; living here was a bigger privilege.
> > > >
> > > >We thought fast food was what people ate during Lent.  Having a
> > meaningful
> > > >relationship meant getting along with your cousins.  Draft dodgers
were
> > > >people who closed their front doors when the evening breeze started.
> > > >Time-sharing meant time the family spent together in the evenings and
> > > >weekends -- not condominiums.
> > > >
> > > >We never heard of FM radios, tape decks, CDs, electric typewriters,
> > yogurt,
> > > >or guys wearing earrings. We listened to the Big Bands, Jack Benny,
and
> > the
> > > >President's speeches on radio. I don't ever remember any kid blowing
> his
> > > >brains out listening to Tommy Dorsey.
> > > >
> > > >If you saw anything with 'Made in Japan' on it, it was junk. The term
> > > >'making out' referred to how you did on your school exam. Pizza Hut,
> > > >McDonald's, and instant coffee were unheard of.  We had 5 & 10-cent
> > stores
> > > >where you could actually buy things for 5 and 10 cents. Ice cream
> cones,
> > > >phone calls, rides on a streetcar, and a
> > > >Pepsi were all a nickel. And if you didn't want to splurge, you could
> > spend
> > > >your
> > > >nickel on enough stamps to mail 1 letter and 2 postcards. You could
buy
> a
> > > >new Chevy Coupe for $600, but who could afford one?  Too bad, because
> gas
> > > >was 11 cents a gallon.
> > > >
> > > >In my day, 'grass' was mowed, 'coke' was a cold drink, 'pot' was
> > something
> > > >your mother cooked in, and 'rock music' was your grandmother's
lullaby.
> > > >'Aids' were helpers in the Principal's office, 'chip' meant a piece
of
> > wood,
> > > >'hardware' was found in a hardware store, and 'software' wasn't even
a
> > word.
> > > >
> > > >And we were the last generation that was so dumb as to think a lady
> > needed a
> > > >husband to have a baby. No wonder people call us old and confused --
> and
> > say
> > > >there is such a generation gap. And I'm only 60 years old.
> > > >
> > > >
> > All I can say is, Amen!!
> > >
> > Travis Tonn>
> > >
> >
>