Re: Fighting blind propaganda

[sec@moscow.com]

> It does have some interesting forfeiture sections.  (On the subject of
> forfeiture, I will say right now that the zero tolerance laws on the books
> are stupid.  They assume guilt over innocence and they just invite
> corruption and abuse by the government and law enforcement agencies.)
> Section 1614 fo the bill states that forfeiture can apply to "real estate
> where the offense was committed."  Not just a car (included in previous
> section), but now someone can lose a whole house.

uh, Marc. "innocent until proven guilty" was struck down by the Supream Court of the US

(otherwise how can New York take your car if they merarly suspect you of drunk driving,
or suspect you of drug trafficking?)

> It also bans imprtation of large capacity ammunition feeding devices, even
> if they were legal to import under the Violent Crime Control and Law
> Enforcement Act of 1994.  But then a subtitle of this act is "The Juvenile
> Assault Weapon Loophole Closure Act of 1999" implying that there were huge
> loopholes in the previous act. 

question, what do high capacity firearm magazines have to do with childern?

> > On average, nearly 13 children die each day
> >from gunfire in America, about one every 100 minutes or the
> >equivalent of a classroom of children every two days.  
> 
> SHOW ME YOUR DATA!  I would love to see it.  Tell me you are not calling
> anyone under 24 a child.  Show me the facts that dispute that accidental
> firearm injury among children has been falling every year for about 20
> years.

Hand Gun COntrol Inc. (where anti firearm people get there data) 
defines a "child" as anyone from 1 year of age to the age of 25, 
amongst other things (all teen suicides are gun related acording to 
them)

> >Gun safety provisions such as requiring handgun safety locks,
> >background checks at gun shows, imposing one gun a month
> >purchasing restrictions, and requiring guns to be stored
> >safely and out of reach of children will help to address the
> >high death toll of our nation's children.  More American
> >children have died as a result of gun violence since 1979 than the number
> > of soldiers killed in combat in Vietnam.  
> 
> Once again, show me the data.  

I think he means more 23 year old drug dealers are killing each 
other each year.
 
> Say no to the NRA; it is time we protect children, not guns.
> 
> Ah, the evil NRA.  They are the scourge of our society.  According to the
> findings in S254, sec 802, The administartion initiated an "innovative"
> program in 1988 by aggressively prosecuting criminals with guns in order
> to punish criminal misuse of weapons.  This program was pushed for--fought
> for--by the NRA.  It believes that the person should be held accountable
> for the tool, not the tool.  And the bill states "criminal misuse of
> weapons."  I'm sure that's an oversight, but it does imply that they
> criminal was using it in a "bad" way.  

come ne Marc, EVERYONE knows the NRA causes gun crime.. not 
the drugs.

> The above program has been shown to reduce violent crime.  As far as I
> know, nothing else has.  Many restrictive gun control laws have been
> passed since 1988 and not one can be shown to reduce crime.  

actualy, properly done studies have shown that with the increase of 
concieled carry laws (and more Americans carrying) Vlolent crime 
has gone down.

> Don't get me wrong--there are some good things in the bill.  I know.  I
> read it.  I just get irked at everyone following someone like cattle
> because they were told to do it.  I like to decide for myself.  My stance
> on the bill is neutral.  There are some good things, there are some bad
> things.  And there is a lot of "feel good" stuff like above--useless from
> any practical standpoint but it looks good to the voters.
> 
> Marc
> Crusher of Illusions

the danger in bills like this Marc is that it builds tools for Prosecuitors 
to use on law abiding citizens. (in Canada a man is in jail for 
running off a druggy with a replica (non fireing) muzzle loader who 
was raping his 9 month pregnant wife, his crime? "pointing a 
firearm")

Stan